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 LED replacements for anchor/steam/deck + nav
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doublereefed
Navigator

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147 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/22/2020 :  11:04:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I won't get access to my 1995 C250 WB until the first week of May, so wondering if someone might have this info at hand.

I would like to replace the mast and nav lighting with LEDs. Does anyone happen to know the exact spec for the anchor, steam, deck and then nav lights on my model?

Thank you,

-Richard

'95 C250 WB #61
Midway, UT

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1119 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2020 :  13:44:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Ditto


Henk & Johanna
Mariah '96 C250WB #191
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4656 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2020 :  22:08:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No idea.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 04/23/2020 05:30:30
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solvasoncc
1st Mate

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USA
41 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2020 :  05:43:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would love to find this out as well. It has been on my to do list for sometime.

Charles

Catalina 250 WK SR Hull #475
College Station, TX
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
8584 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2020 :  06:55:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There is an issue with replacing incandescent bulbs with LEDs in nav light fixtures--the resulting color and/or visibility distance might not meet the USCG requirements. According to the regs, the entire fixture, including the type of bulb it was made for, must be USCG approved. Putting a different kind of bulb in voids that approval. So to be legal, you have to buy approved LED fixtures. Otherwise, it could come back to bite you if you have an incident at night where somebody challenges your visibility.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-USCG-OUPV
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/23/2020 07:01:50
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doublereefed
Navigator

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147 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2020 :  08:06:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

There is an issue with replacing incandescent bulbs with LEDs in nav light fixtures--the resulting color and/or visibility distance might not meet the USCG requirements. According to the regs, the entire fixture, including the type of bulb it was made for, must be USCG approved. Putting a different kind of bulb in voids that approval. So to be legal, you have to buy approved LED fixtures. Otherwise, it could come back to bite you if you have an incident at night where somebody challenges your visibility.



That makes sense, thanks for pointing that out. Once I get my boat out of storage I will have to see if i can find replacement housings.

'95 C250 WB #61
Midway, UT
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k3fuller
1st Mate

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USA
44 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2020 :  09:00:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with being compliant with the laws even though I sail on a lake in Oklahoma where nobody cares. I can't imagine though that they would require you to replace an entire fixture. I can tell you what I did on my '04WB but really, you need to check your existing fixtures, pull the bulbs and try to get the model number off of them so you know what they are. That was a pain in the A.. on old corroded bulbs. Need lots of zoom on the phone camera for these older eyes… In any event I will also tell you I tried to do some of it cheap, the anchor light, and by using a white all round automotive bulb which corroded up in less than a year and had to be replaced again, and I'm not even in salt air!!! So all that said, do the right thing the first time even though some of it's expensive. My anchor light now is: HELLA 2492, it should be correct USCG for an anchor light and I got it at defender marine - it was expensive - but, it is so much brighter than the Automotive LED I tried last year. It's also completey sealed, something that I think doomed the Auto LED I tried. For the Bow light I also spent the $ on the Hella Z3799 available from Catalina Direct: https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/catalina-250/electrical/replacement-bulbs/led-upgrade-navigation-hella-red-green-bow-potted/ and it too is REALLY visible and bright. Red/Green front is clearly very important. Which raises the point – incandescent bulbs seem to dim over time - how does the USCG deal with that? Certainly was the case with the original anchor light too! Anyway, I will tell you I am still on the cheap with the rear white light - I pulled the bulb and took it to walmart and found a white LED of the same size in the automotive section and am using that. It should be a S8.5 base and same for the Bow (steaming) light. It is very bright but I think the color temperature is about 5000K which tends to the blue spectrum and not pure white per the Regs. Still I doubt anyone would care, you can see me. I’m guessing the Regs want a light about 3000K color temperature. When I redid all the lights in our house that’s what I settled on for here too, not too yellow, not too blue. I wouldn’t think the deck light matters to the Regs, on my boat I replaced the Halogen with this one from WestMarine: https://www.westmarine.com/buy/dr-led--mr16-led-bulb-12-24v-1w-warm--14161996
It’s very bright and works well. On the inside I replaced all the round lights with the ones from CD, they’re cheap and work well. As an aside you can download the Dr LED marine lighting catalog here: https://www.doctorled.com/DrLED-Marine-Catalog.pdf Anyway, that’s my 2 cents. Check your fixtures and bulb numbers, your mileage may vary.

2004 250WB #781

Edited by - k3fuller on 04/23/2020 09:02:01
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doublereefed
Navigator

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147 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2020 :  10:35:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ksfuller, THANK YOU. Just the kind of been-there-done-that experience I was looking for. Thank you for the how-to as well as the links to the products.


'95 C250 WB #61
Midway, UT
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HappyNow
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2020 :  15:51:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Found this on a quick online search. Good reviews. The first review is from a replacement on a Catalina 27 so it might be worth a try. Much better price than the Hella.
Five Oceans Marine Boat All Round Anchor 360 Degree LED Daylight White Navigation Light, 12V FO-3838
by Five Oceans
4.6 out of 5 stars 41 ratings | 14 answered questions
Amazon's
Choice
for "led boat anchor light"
Price: $19.90 & FREE Shipping
Get $10 off instantly: Pay $9.90 upon approval for the Amazon Prime Store Card.
EASY Mounting Installation. Round Shape and Black Plastic Base (Included)
HOUSING Made of ABS Plastic UV resistant
VOLTAGE is 12 Volts and Wattage is 1.8W with low power consumption LED technology
LED Beam Angle of 120 degree and Visibility about 2NM
SUITABLE for Boats Up to 39.37FT (12m)

Michael Levin
Sailin' on Sunshine
C250 #402 WK
Lake Tahoe
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
8584 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2020 :  22:06:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, you can probably be seen with navigation lights that don't quite meet the regs. But if somebody runs into you (or vice versa), you end up in court, and the other party discovers your lights are not USCG approved, you'll have a problem. (And that's the kind of thing they look for.) It's well established in Admiralty Courts that nav lights must be USCG approved, and that approval is only for a fixture as manufactured and tested. LED bulbs tend to wash out the colors of red-green lenses, and have more focused patterns of light--you can often see a bright stripe inside a fixture, even in an LED lamp in your house. So the USCG approves both types, but not DIY combinations. I'm just pointing out the legalities, which don't differ on a lake where there is no USCG presence. So you don't need new fixtures for spreader/deck lights, but for anchor/steaming/stern/port/starboard nav lights, incandescent fixtures are not "convertible" to LEDs under the regs.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-USCG-OUPV
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/23/2020 22:18:26
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k3fuller
1st Mate

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USA
44 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2020 :  06:45:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Indeed. The contracts guy in me completely agrees. In some ways seems an unfortunate reflection on our times that that’s what happens. Though I suppose it’s probably always been that way and one could search records and see that that type of legal technicality has been employed for hundreds of years to determine fault or liability. What is it they say, ignorance of the law is no excuse! It also makes me think of the other regulations where I think we’re supposed to have the black ball at anchor and/or the inverted cone for motoring in daylight.

2004 250WB #781
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Caribbean Soul
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2020 :  17:33:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is the most relevant post I can find to help me figure out what to do with cut electric wires - cut flush right at the level of the deck, so they don't pull out to strip and rewire - -these are located where the plug (i think) should be for mast light. There are three together where the plug should be and then one large one, maybe co-axial about 4 inches toward bow. I think this is something I need to fix before she goes in .

sorry to be the NEW GIRL, can ya tell. But hey I DID A FIBERGLASS REPAIR TODAY, all by myself who knew!???

Caribbean Soul - Ithaca NY - C25 - 1983 - SR/FK - Traditional layout - #3429 - She's Fixin' a Boat - Help!! :)
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
8584 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2020 :  06:59:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Caribbean Soul

This is the most relevant post I can find to help me figure out what to do with cut electric wires - cut flush right at the level of the deck... I think this is something I need to fix before she goes in.
Hi Caribbean: A couple of things...

First, if there isn't a thread that's on-point to your question, it's best to start a "New Topic" by selecting the appropriate forum (like this one). Then you can get answers specific to your situation without confusing a discussion about somebody else's. Then you can optionally "Subscribe" to your thread so you're notified of responses.

Second, you're correct--you need to fix this before launching. Your boat isn't legal on the water without the required navigation lights, which in this case include the steaming and mast-head lights. That's what the three wires were for... The coax was for a VHF antenna. Catalina sandwiched these wires between the cabin-top and the interior liner, so they're tough to work with or even remove. Many folks have run new ones through the cabin (generally under the side-decks). You should be able to find some topics with the Search function.

And congrats on the repair--what was it about? (Sorry--I'm adding to the hyjack of this thread... )

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-USCG-OUPV
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/06/2020 07:07:12
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Caribbean Soul
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2020 :  12:33:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Got it Captain! Thanks for the orientation, much appreciated. Won't hijack again and apologies to all. Off to check the wires now. But since this is my last hijack, the glass repair was a hole through the cockpit locker port side. It worked! And final hijack is to say my parents live on masons island and once the Caribbean is safe, that's my first long journey. Up Cayuga, across the Erie, down the Hudson, and across the LIS. Maybe I'll see ya at the MIYC :)

Caribbean Soul - Ithaca NY - C25 - 1983 - SR/FK - Traditional layout - #3429 - She's Fixin' a Boat - Help!! :)
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
8584 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2020 :  13:50:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
...and if you came here without the working lights, it's a virtual certainty you'd be boarded by the USCG (the academy and base are here), and fined. (They've been aboard Sarge twice--interesting experiences.) Let me know when you're coming!
Sarge out.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-USCG-OUPV
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.
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HappyNow
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2020 :  20:38:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I installed the Five Oceans LED anchor light noted in my post above, ordered from Amazon for $19.90. The base diameter is slightly larger than the old one, so only one screw hole lined up and I drilled through the plastic base for the second one. Seems adequately made. The base on the old one, original to the boat, crumbled as I was removing it. Very bright. Took about ten minutes to change.

Michael Levin
Sailin' on Sunshine
C250 #402 WK
Lake Tahoe
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