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Erik Cornelison
Navigator

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USA
194 Posts
Initially Posted - 01/06/2020 :  15:47:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi - looking to upgrade to a furler. I never had one before. I started my search with Catalina Direct.

What's the difference between the Schaefer Snapfurl Furler & the CDI Flexible Furler? I want the best quality version, not interested in saving a few $$ and then having a furler that gives me problems.

Is there another one I should look at? I'm not brand loyal.

best regards,

Erik
Erik Cornelison
6th Generation Professional Sailor, First Gen Submarine Sailor.
1986 Standard Rig SW. #5234

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts
Response Posted - 01/06/2020 :  17:32:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a Hood brand furler. It’s not extravagant but it gets the job done. Some furler foils (the part that the sail wraps around) is made of plastic of some kind.

Many forms of plastic are attacked by UV radiation and made brittle in cold weather.

My Hood foil is made of aluminum for rigidity and resilience. Aluminum also reduces weight up at the mast top where it’s most critical. I can’t say how it compares to others but after 13 years it’s still going strong.
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts
Response Posted - 01/07/2020 :  06:55:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you ever intend to lower or raise the mast yourself, with either a gin pole or A-frame, the CDI Flexible Furler is superior to all others.

In my ten years of C25 ownership it never once gave me a problem or a jam. Something that cannot be said of the very expensive Selden Furlex on my current boat.

The foil on the CDI can take all kind of abuse the other furlers will not tolerate.

As another side benefit, if frees up you jib halyard for other uses.
Davy J


2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay
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Erik Cornelison
Navigator

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USA
194 Posts
Response Posted - 01/07/2020 :  11:28:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good info so far. I did not factor in the plastic breaking in the cold.
Yes my boat is on a trailer, I use a gin pole to raise and lower the mast. The boat stay's at a marina in Colorado for the spring, summer and fall. The temps vary from 90 in summer to 15 in the fall, and when I pull the boat in the fall the temps are in the high 50's.

I'd like to take it to another lake in the winter that doesn't freeze over, so working in the cold is a concern.

Erik
Erik Cornelison
6th Generation Professional Sailor, First Gen Submarine Sailor.
1986 Standard Rig SW. #5234
Edited by - Erik Cornelison on 01/07/2020 14:41:53
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HappyNow
1st Mate

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USA
99 Posts
Response Posted - 01/07/2020 :  13:44:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you go with CDI, I recommend you get the ball bearing upgrade rather than the plastic roller, if that’s still how they’re made. I replaced the plastic a few years ago because it was warped, and the difference was huge.
Michael Levin
Sailin' on Sunshine
C250 #402 WK
Lake Tahoe
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts
Response Posted - 01/07/2020 :  14:24:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a Harken furler on my C&C35 and like it. It's available with either a single slot in the foil or twin slots. The twin slots facilitate sail changes while underway.

The installation of any furler must be done carefully, according to the manufacturer's instructions, because furlers are prone to binding if not installed correctly.
Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore
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Erik Cornelison
Navigator

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USA
194 Posts
Response Posted - 01/07/2020 :  14:43:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can you explain this? I don't know what you mean by changing the sail while underway? I thought to change the sail, I just pull in or let out the sail.

Erik

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

I have a Harken furler on my C&C35 and like it. It's available with either a single slot in the foil or twin slots. The twin slots facilitate sail changes while underway.

The installation of any furler must be done carefully, according to the manufacturer's instructions, because furlers are prone to binding if not installed correctly.
Erik Cornelison
6th Generation Professional Sailor, First Gen Submarine Sailor.
1986 Standard Rig SW. #5234
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts
Response Posted - 01/07/2020 :  16:17:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Furlers are used by racers as well as cruisers. Racing jibs are called "deck sweepers", because the foot of the sail is cut so low that it almost sweeps the deck. That maximizes the sail's area. A bigger sail is more powerful. A deck sweeping racing sail can't be roller furled, because the low cut foot can't roll onto the furler, but racing sails can be raised in the slot of a furling foil.

The foot of a cruising sail is cut much higher, because a jib must have a high cut foot to roll onto a furler properly.

Racers use deck sweepers to race and higher cut cruising sails to cruise.

Thus, if the wind velocity changes while racing, the racing jib can't be rolled in or out. The racer must change to a different size sail.

A cruiser might also change sails occasionally. A cruising genoa is made of much lighter weight sailcloth than a storm jib. A deeply furled genoa can be stretched out of shape in a severe storm, so a cruiser might want to take down the big genoa and run up a storm jib.
Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore
Edited by - Steve Milby on 01/07/2020 16:45:56
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 01/08/2020 :  12:47:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The purpose of two slots is a sail change can be made without losing power. On a tack with the open slot on the leeward side of the foil, the "new" sail is hoisted behind the "old"... Then the boat is tacked over, the new sail sheeted in, and the old sail is "peeled off" (hauled down) behind it. Cute, huh?
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/08/2020 12:55:56
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Erik Cornelison
Navigator

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USA
194 Posts
Response Posted - 01/08/2020 :  15:16:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes I do understand the aerodynamic's of a lower sail. I purposely keep my jib on the Catalina just above the deck to give more speed, it sweeps the deck. I can't remember the name of the technical term, I learned about it sailing Sunfish sailboats. Its not just a bigger sail, its actually aerodynamics of how the wind crosses the hull and sail together. Two identical Sunfish, one high sail and one low sail will have the low sail beat the higher set sail. But anyway, that's another topic.

I don't really plan to race the Catalina (my wife would disagree and my friend has a Catalina 25 tall rig which give some real competition as he should always be faster), the idea is to have a furler that makes sailing more enjoyable.

My marina neighbor had some issues this summer with his Hunter 26 furler getting twisted and not right. I don't want to be struggling with a furler off the coast of Catalina, I just want it to work.

I really appreciate the responses. I still don't understand the difference between the CDI furler vs. Schaefer Snapfurl on Catalina Direct. Is it just a Ford Vs. Chevy thing? I do understand getting the CDI upgrade with bearings.

I know a lot of people with Catalina 25's are frugal, but I'm at the point in life I'd rather just get the best one vs. saving $200 and then having issues with it.

Best regards,

Erik

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

Furlers are used by racers as well as cruisers. Racing jibs are called "deck sweepers", because the foot of the sail is cut so low that it almost sweeps the deck. That maximizes the sail's area. A bigger sail is more powerful. A deck sweeping racing sail can't be roller furled, because the low cut foot can't roll onto the furler, but racing sails can be raised in the slot of a furling foil.

The foot of a cruising sail is cut much higher, because a jib must have a high cut foot to roll onto a furler properly.

Racers use deck sweepers to race and higher cut cruising sails to cruise.

Thus, if the wind velocity changes while racing, the racing jib can't be rolled in or out. The racer must change to a different size sail.

A cruiser might also change sails occasionally. A cruising genoa is made of much lighter weight sailcloth than a storm jib. A deeply furled genoa can be stretched out of shape in a severe storm, so a cruiser might want to take down the big genoa and run up a storm jib.
Erik Cornelison
6th Generation Professional Sailor, First Gen Submarine Sailor.
1986 Standard Rig SW. #5234
Edited by - Erik Cornelison on 01/08/2020 15:33:08
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Erik Cornelison
Navigator

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USA
194 Posts
Response Posted - 01/08/2020 :  16:36:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's really cool. I didn't know.

Thanks.

Erik

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

The purpose of two slots is a sail change can be made without losing power. On a tack with the open slot on the leeward side of the foil, the "new" sail is hoisted behind the "old"... Then the boat is tacked over, the new sail sheeted in, and the old sail is "peeled off" (hauled down) behind it. Cute, huh?
Erik Cornelison
6th Generation Professional Sailor, First Gen Submarine Sailor.
1986 Standard Rig SW. #5234
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts
Response Posted - 01/08/2020 :  17:41:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Cornelison

Yes I do understand the aerodynamic's of a lower sail. I purposely keep my jib on the Catalina just above the deck to give more speed, it sweeps the deck. I can't remember the name of the technical term, I learned about it sailing Sunfish sailboats.

I think you're referring to the "end plate effect." In theory, it reduces the effect of turbulence coming off the foot of the sail. It's the same reason why winglets are being put on the wingtips of commercial jets.

I have never heard anyone complain about any modern, name brand furler. I think they all work well. What really matters is that they be installed correctly. The Harken furler on my C&C35 was professionally installed and it worked terribly for a year, until I finally figured out that it wasn't installed correctly. I had a minor correction made at the masthead and it works fine now. By far, most C25 sailors buy CDI furlers and express their satisfaction on the forum. Everything Schaefer makes is excellent quality and would probably last 30-40 years, if you plan to keep the boat that long.
Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 01/09/2020 :  08:58:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One advantage of the CDI over other furlers I'm familiar with is the internal halyard, which eliminates the threat of the dreaded "halyard wrap". On most furlers, the head of the sail is shackled to the lower half of the swivel, and the halyard to the upper half. Halyard tension prevents the upper half from turning as the sail is furled or unfurled (turning the lower half). If the halyard doesn't prevent top from turning, it wraps around the forestay above the swivel--possibly damaging the halyard and/or the stay. This should be prevented by a small "restrainer" block on the front of the mast, positioned so the halyard runs down from the mast-head, through the block, and then out at an angle to the fully-hoisted swivel, instead of parallel to the stay. I'm guessing Steve might have been missing that block initially, or it might not have been positioned properly. This is one of the things that suggest installation by someone who knows what they're doing. But it's not an issue with the CDI.

(My understanding of the performance benefit of a lower sail on a Sunfish (which I owned) is that it primarily lowers the center of effort so that the heeling force is reduced. Then your body (the movable ballast) can hold the rig more upright to the wind, increasing speed on a beat or reach. If the gooseneck is placed right, you might still have a little room to duck under during a tack... I don't think turbulence off the leech is a big issue with just one sail--it might be with the jib on a sloop.)
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/09/2020 09:05:00
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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts
Response Posted - 01/10/2020 :  10:05:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've got the Harken twin foil furler and I love it. I had the standard hank-on setup when I bought the boat. After several years of hanking on sails and having to hoist and lower them single handed I finally added the furler. Absolutely the best addition I've done to the boat!!!

It's almost like having a stinkpotter. :) Pull one line and you're sailing, pull another and your ready to dock.

I've never had any issues with halyard wrap. Mine was setup with the "halyard restrainer" Dave mentioned above.

It's possible your friends boat didn't have the halyard restrainer. Without it the jib halyard must have enough tension on it so the swaivel works correctly. If tension is too loose the halyard will wrap around the forestay.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX
Edited by - GaryB on 01/10/2020 10:11:48
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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts
Response Posted - 01/10/2020 :  17:36:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've been a long-time CDI guy. My boat came with an 80's era one, with metal bales at the base and aluminum foil pieces. It worked well until a big Cal 46 wrapped my anchor line in his prop, pulling down my bow until the line cut/broke, suddenly shooting up my bow, smashing into his transom - which destroyed my furler base. I got a replacement base from CDI (the original inventor/owner of CDI took the order over the phone). That worked well until I replaced my standing rigging a couple years ago, and the small connector pieces between the original aluminum foil pieces wouldn't re-connect properly, so I ordered a new "flexible" foil to go with the base that I previously replaced (this time from the outfit that bought the company from the original owner). This has worked out well also. I don't have the ball-bearing base, but I find it easy to fall off the wind a bit each time I need to wrap up the sail.


RichardG 81 FK/SR #2657
Terminal Island, CA
Edited by - RichardG on 01/10/2020 17:41:54
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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts
Response Posted - 01/10/2020 :  19:06:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm not an expert, but . . . . when looking at furlers back in 2007 my rigging guy told me that the CDI was fine for "light work/cruising" but I should consider Schaefer or Harken if I ever wanted to race, or sail frequently with a half furled head sail, etc. I went with the Harken and have never looked back. Over the life of owning a boat a few hundred dollars does not matter. The CDI is a fine option, just think through your expected use of the boat and the delta between the price of any and all.
Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT
Edited by - bigelowp on 01/13/2020 16:16:55
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