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Mast step screws stick through hull. This normal?

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Drews Cruise
1st Mate

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USA
39 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/24/2019 : 14:11:53

Hey all. I just redid my mast step as some screws ripped through the hull when I tried to raise the mast the other day. After redoing them I noticed that 3 of the 4 screws actually go straight through the hull to the fiberglass. Only one screw went into the woden post that runs along the inside of the cabin. Is this normal? Thanks.

I�m on mobile so please click link below for pics.
https://imgur.com/a/P1s7tfe

Drew C. | 1979 Catalina 25 SK TR #1420
http://bit.ly/Click_Here_For_My_Catalina_25_Videos

Edited by - Drews Cruise on 05/24/2019 14:21:07

keats
Navigator

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USA
215 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2019 : 16:51:04

That is pretty much where my fasteners come through except they are machine screws with washers and acorn nuts below.

I'll send some pics.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

Edited by - keats on 05/24/2019 17:01:50

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2019 : 16:56:47

Ouch!! So, what happened? You were trying to raise your mast using the various mast raising methodologies ( A-frame or Jin-Pole) and allova sudden, the mast step ripped off the cabintop? Wow! That must've really ruined your day.
So, looking at my mast tabernacle (metal bracket at the base of the mast) it has four stainless steel bolts that go through from the cabintop down inside the cabin. There are two rears aft of the compression post and two forwards ahead of the post. They have some large backing washers on them, with regular nuts plus some cap nuts, mostly for looks.
I reckon that if your tabernacle bolts, or screws, were weak, the lateral forces on the base would put a tremendous amount of leverage on it, so much so that they could pull out.
If you currently have wood screws, they may have been installed by a previous owner not thinking about the forces involved. You should have bolts, washers and nuts.
Was there any damage to the cabintop fiberglass? Did the holes get torn out? You'd probably have to fix them first, since this would be a source of moisture getting into the cabintop and rotting the core. It may be that the core is already a little spongy.
I'd probe it with a thin screwdriver or poker to check it.
If it is rotted or soft inside, you might want to drill out the core, then refill it with thickened epoxy and drill new bolt-holes.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2019 : 17:14:19

On the older C25s, including my 1981, the mast step was secured with wood screws. 2-3 years later Catalina started throughbolting them. As I recall, some folks found some way to convert the older ones to throughbolts, perhaps by installing a new mast tabernacle with holes for attaching snatch blocks, and then drilling holes in appropriate places for the throughbolts. You might even be able to use the original tabernacle and drill new screw holes in the base. The new holes have to be spaced outside the dimensions of the wood support post inside the boat.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 05/24/2019 17:16:30

keats
Navigator

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USA
215 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2019 : 17:15:29

I have a tall rig also and when you lower the mast forward and rest it on a board across the pulpit you have way more weight out over the bow (on the wrong side of the see-saw). I can imagine that would put a lot of upward force on those screws, especially if it got laid down hard. Wondering if that is what happened originally. I agree screws are not good there.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2019 : 17:22:43

That crack would be my concern, Did that happen when things went south with the mast? Some have said here on the forum that they have maybe 2 lag screws that go into the post and the other 2 are through bolted but yours are not in the post. I seriously doubt that what you have is Catalina's work. They just wouldn't do that. I would remove those lag screws, Fill the holes, Fix that crack that I hope isn't all the way through the deck then drill new holes forward and aft of the post, Then use machine screws with washers, nuts and acorn nuts. This is my bolts that are through bolted forward and aft of the post.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 05/24/2019 17:25:36

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2019 : 17:25:29

Mine became very loose with age. When the mast was up, and the shrouds were tensioned properly, the mast was secure, but if the shrouds were too loose, you could hear the mast moving and banging when in a heavy chop. That's another reason why rig tuning is important. I always lowered my mast with the help of 3-4 helpers, and not using an A frame, and always sat on the base when it was down to keep it from pulling the screws out.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2019 : 18:49:35

Appears to me the top of the bulkhead is discolored and shows signs of having water damage. Wondering if water may have been getting in where the power cable for the mast lights goes thru the deck?

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Drews Cruise
1st Mate

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USA
39 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2019 : 19:21:17

I appreciate the prompt responses and great pictures guys! I am going to attempt to raise the mast and have it with its current setup for a month or so and then I will run some machine screws and nuts as the newer Catalinas have. I just want to get sailing! Anyways, y'all are the best!

I love this forum.

Thanks again.

Drew C. | 1979 Catalina 25 SK TR #1420
http://bit.ly/Click_Here_For_My_Catalina_25_Videos

Drews Cruise
1st Mate

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USA
39 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2019 : 19:23:34

Also, one of the lag bolts runs through that wooden beam that goes through the inside of the boat. Weird! I will leave one lag bolt in and put machine screws on the three holes that are exposed. Thanks again.

Drew C. | 1979 Catalina 25 SK TR #1420
http://bit.ly/Click_Here_For_My_Catalina_25_Videos

jon300c
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2019 : 10:55:11

quote:
Originally posted by GaryB

Appears to me the top of the bulkhead is discolored and shows signs of having water damage. Wondering if water may have been getting in where the power cable for the mast lights goes thru the deck?

I just started a water damage repair on my C25 this weekend where water was getting in where the mast light connection is at. I have tore out about a 1' x 2' section and all the plywood core was saturated. I am pretty sure the whole top cabin core by the mast needs to be replaced. Somewhat of a daunting task.

Another C25 sailor on our lake had his mast come down last year due to poor support of mast. He was on the water when it happened, not a fun situation to be in. He has to replace most of the area around his mast step.

JB
Navigator

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USA
110 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2019 : 11:32:28

I've done the mast step repair on two previous boats by other manufacturers and expect to have to do the same on my Catalina 25. One piece of advice I have to offer is to make your cuts in such a way that you can save the outer shell and reuse it. Fiberglass epoxy is easy to work with, if you screw it up just grind/cut it out. Getting the finish right takes skill.

1988 C25 Wing Keel Std Rig Tohatsu 9.9 Tiller Steering and 2003 C250 Wing Keel Std Rig Inboard Diesel Wheel Steering

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2019 : 20:47:18

I removed my step to put a plate under it for blocks to lead lines to the cockpit--I recall two screws into the wood compression post inside, and two thru-bolts (I believe on the head side of the post). The bolts were so close to the post that they could barely accommodate very small washers. Be very careful to bed everything to get a good seal on the bolts--this means tightening the nuts while keeping the bolts from turning. (If you can prop the pop-top up with something, you might be able to do it yourself.) Either that, or use the over-drill/epoxy fill/re-drill technique to protect the core and create a "compression sleeve" through it. There are discussions on that--you can "Search" for "overdrill" on the forum, checking the "archives" box.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

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