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 Anchoring thoughts
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stang9150
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USA
137 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/17/2019 :  20:36:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I do not have a bow roller on my boat. When I anchor I use one of the fair leads on the bow, then lead the rode back to a cleat in the middle of the bow. I notice my boat is never pointed into the wind with this set up. I seem to sail one side or the other. I take it this is because the rode is not right off the bow. What can I do to make her sit better at anchor? I was thinking maybe a bridle on the two main cleats on the bow and attach the rode in the center.

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5269 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2019 :  03:56:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Boats sail at anchor because the center of windage on their topsides and rigging is forward of the underwater center of lateral resistance. Most sailboats experience it. To prevent it, you can move the center of windage aft by hoisting an anchor riding sail at the stern.




Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("Fahrvergnügen")
Past Commodore
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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1468 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2019 :  09:15:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I added an anchor roller and I don't remember my boat sailing around that much while at anchor.

Other advantages of adding a anchor roller are, 1) you can carry a larger anchor than will fit into the anchor locker. 2) The anchor is ready to be deployed quickly, just untie and let it drop.

Windline URM-2:








Davy J


2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay
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Erik Cornelison
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USA
163 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2019 :  17:38:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Davy J

I added an anchor roller and I don't remember my boat sailing around that much while at anchor.

Other advantages of adding a anchor roller are, 1) you can carry a larger anchor than will fit into the anchor locker. 2) The anchor is ready to be deployed quickly, just untie and let it drop.

Windline URM-2:











Davy J - I like that roller, can you tell if the roller attaches with bolts going into the anchor locker?

I need a roller, we anchor a lot and love it, but it's a pain to pull up all the rope and chain without hitting the rub rail. Its tiring out the wife....

Erik

Erik Cornelison
6th Generation Professional Sailor, First Gen Submarine Sailor.
1986 Standard Rig SW. #5234
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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1733 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2019 :  19:19:42  Show Profile  Visit Leon Sisson's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have the bow roller Catalina made for the 25.



I've been pleased with it.

— Leon Sisson
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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1468 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2019 :  20:46:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
I like that roller, can you tell if the roller attaches with bolts going into the anchor locker?


Bolted thru the foredeck, into anchor locker, large fender washers, with a piece of 3/4" solid oak as a backing plate.




Davy J


2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay
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JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1495 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2019 :  13:21:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My C25 sails back and forth at anchor, which is attached through an anchor roller. I sewed together a 5' triangular riding sail and flew it from the main halyard along the line of the topping lift (stern end of the boom), but it had minimal effect in reducing sailing at anchor. It's about the same in 2 knot winds and in 15 knot (annoying) winds.

Perhaps a larger riding sail would work, but instead of that I just enjoy the stars and the moon rotating slowly overhead while the Admiral and I fall asleep on the big air mattress in the cabin with the pop top up and the hatch wide open!


JohnP
1978 C25 SR/FK "Gypsy"
Mill Creek off the Magothy River, Chesapeake Bay
Port Captain, northern Chesapeake Bay
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blanik
Navigator

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Canada
202 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2019 :  16:22:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Steve Milby is right, our boats sway at anchor because the center of gravity is way aft, our 25s have all the weight towards the rear, engine, fuel, batteries, humans... the light bow acts like a wind vane and pushes the boat to one side lifting the rode, once tight it sways back the other way... those with inboard engines might be less subject to this. Having the rode come out right at the center won't change that

1984 C25 FK/SR #4593
Lake Champlain

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5269 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2019 :  04:38:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just received a private email from a member asking the following:

"...We are new to our 1984 C25, TR, SK and have been following the
discussion on anchoring. We primarily sail in the Bay off a barrier island off NJ. Can you explain more about sailing at anchor? Thx"

Different forces are at work on a sailboat above and below the waterline, even when it's at anchor. Above the waterline, the wind is blowing against the hull. Below the waterline, the keel hangs down providing resistance to any lateral (sideways) movement of the boat. When a sailboat turns, it rotates on it's center of lateral resistance (CLR). As the bow of the boat falls away from the wind, the stern rotates toward the wind.

There's more above-waterline surface area in front of the keel than aft of the keel. When the wind blows on the hull, there's more pressure on the hull in front of the keel than aft, so that causes the bow of the boat to fall away from the wind. When the boat tries to sail away, the anchor line prevents it, and pulls the bow back the other way. When the wind starts blowing against the other side of the hull, the boat tries to sail off the other way until the anchor line pulls it back. The result is that the boat oscillates back and forth at anchor.

The way to prevent it is to raise an anchor riding sail near the stern of the boat. That increases the windage aft of the center of lateral resistance (which is located approximately in the center of the keel). The effect of the riding sail is that the wind pushes harder against the stern of the boat than the bow, and that causes the boat to point into the wind.

Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("Fahrvergnügen")
Past Commodore
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
8191 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2019 :  06:18:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Even my $+!nkp*+ (below) sails around the anchor--a lot--for the same reasons. The bow, cabin and windshield present more area to the wind than the stern, while the way she sits lower in the water astern, and her shallow keel, means most of the lateral resistance from the hull is greater toward the stern. The wind pushes the bow over, and the anchor rode pulls it in an arc until it gets to a point where it pulls the bow back into the wind, causing the wind to catch the other side of the bow, which makes the boat sail on the same arc toward the opposite side of the anchor, where it all repeats. Tracking this on the chartplotter, as long as each arc scribes on top of the others, I know my anchor isn't dragging.

Some classic powerboats have a small mast astern that they can use for a small sail to steady the ride in a seaway as well as to minimize sailing on the anchor. Same physics.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-OUPV
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/08/2019 06:20:26
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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3326 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2019 :  08:22:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote




This always winds them up

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25 SR/FK
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3543 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2019 :  15:58:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I bought the anchor riding sail from Sailrite. I was all excited to try it out. I set the anchor then rigged the sail according to the instructions that Sailrite gives you. Then I sat down and watched the scenery go by to the left then to the right then back to the left then right ect,ect,ect. Total disappointment. Back in the little sail bag it went where it has stayed for 7yrs.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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771 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2019 :  17:33:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've had great success preventing the boat from swinging and sailing by anchoring fore and aft. Off the bow, I use an appropriately sized Danforth that fits in the anchor locker. Off the stern, I use an oversized Danforth (one size higher) that fits in the lazarette. The two Danforth's pulling against each other seem to improve each anchor's holding power. Even with wind and waves on the beam, they have not dragged yet. Of course I try to anchor in protected places, not like this Rocna video (see 45 secs in): https://youtu.be/BD3VuWSm07s

I suppose if they started to drag, I would have retrieved the stern anchor, let out all the bow rode, let the boat swing into the wind and waves so the bow anchor could reset, dropped the stern anchor, and then come up on the bow anchor to reset the stern anchor.

This does require extra rode for both anchors because you only get to use half your rode. 200' of 3/8" 3-ply nylon rode each for bow and stern has worked well for me, giving an anchoring depth of up to 20' with a 5:1 scope.



Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
http://whichsailboat.com/2015/08/22/catalina-22-review/
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blanik
Navigator

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Canada
202 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2019 :  21:00:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sethp001

I've had great success preventing the boat from swinging and sailing by anchoring fore and aft. Off the bow, I use an appropriately sized Danforth that fits in the anchor locker. Off the stern, I use an oversized Danforth (one size higher) that fits in the lazarette. The two Danforth's pulling against each other seem to improve each anchor's holding power. Even with wind and waves on the beam, they have not dragged yet.



A simpler solution would be to tie a line on the stern cleat (while anchored from the bow) and tie the other end of the line on your anchor rode about 10'-15' from the bow cleat to hold the ship at a 30 degrees angle from the wind, should keep it from moving

1984 C25 FK/SR #4593
Lake Champlain

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glivs
Admiral

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USA
691 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2019 :  01:54:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Also worth considering adding a bridle to the rode. Search the General forum archives for anchor bridle. Read, in particular, comments by Arlyn Stewart and Stu Jackson.

Gerry & Leslie; Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

Edited by - glivs on 05/09/2019 01:55:34
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3543 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2019 :  03:23:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Another method that another sailor told me about was to anchor normally then drop another anchor off the bow straight down leaving just enough slack to account for a tide. That anchor drags on the bottom and acts like a brake. I haven't tried it yet.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3326 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2019 :  05:02:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
<< drop another anchor off the bow straight down >>

I have tried that and it fished even more. Way more.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25 SR/FK
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3543 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2019 :  06:27:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
I have tried that and it fished even more. Way more.

Ok..Sounded good on paper. I have been able to stop the swinging by anchoring normally off the bow tied to the bow cleat then taking the line (between the cleat and anchor) and walking it back to the stern cleat. The boat will now be anchored backwards but in an emergency you can just release the line from the stern cleat and the boat will face forward again. If you have a mid ship cleat you can have the boat sit sideways by hooking the line over it. This also is real handy way to get the sun out of the cockpit.


Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound



Edited by - islander on 05/09/2019 06:28:23
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sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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771 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2019 :  19:23:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by blanik

quote:
Originally posted by sethp001

I've had great success preventing the boat from swinging and sailing by anchoring fore and aft. Off the bow, I use an appropriately sized Danforth that fits in the anchor locker. Off the stern, I use an oversized Danforth (one size higher) that fits in the lazarette. The two Danforth's pulling against each other seem to improve each anchor's holding power. Even with wind and waves on the beam, they have not dragged yet.



A simpler solution would be to tie a line on the stern cleat (while anchored from the bow) and tie the other end of the line on your anchor rode about 10'-15' from the bow cleat to hold the ship at a 30 degrees angle from the wind, should keep it from moving



That’s a neat idea but not simpler. With your plan, you’ll have to tie knots in the rode to prevent your extra line from sliding on the rode. When the wind shifts your extra line is useless. You could propose adding your extra line to both sides of the boat, but that’s even more work.

In addition, you lose the power of the two anchors opposing each other. You also lose anchor redundancy.



Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
http://whichsailboat.com/2015/08/22/catalina-22-review/

Edited by - sethp001 on 05/09/2019 19:25:16
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