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 Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums
 Catalina 25 Specific Forum
 Yamaha 9.9, 4 stroke, High Thrust Extra long shaft
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Sailingoldsailor
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/06/2019 :  21:01:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anyone have any experience with this engine on a Catalina 25 fixed keel standard rig? I am currently running an 8 HP Yamaha 4 stroke 20" shaft on my 1984 C25. I sail in Narragansett Bay and when the surf picks up I would like to have the prop deeper in the water to prevent cavitation and get better control. I am told the High thrust 25" shaft was produced for a sailboat. It is more expensive, but is it worth it? The one I'm looking at is dealer reconditioned used one. Any experience with these?

Thanks
Sailingoldsailor

Erik Cornelison
Navigator

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USA
163 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2019 :  21:30:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I can only tell you that a 25' shaft will be better, and my friend who owns a boat shop did say Yamaha is one of the engines brands he would recommend.

Erik Cornelison
6th Generation Professional Sailor, First Gen Submarine Sailor.
1986 Standard Rig SW. #5234
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Sailingoldsailor
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2019 :  05:00:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you Eric and thank you for your service.
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C25BC
Navigator

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Canada
153 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2019 :  05:46:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My boat came with a 2005 8 hp ,high thrust , 25" shaft , electric start and tilt. I have found it to be a excellent motor , no problem keeping the prop in the water ,
and lots of power. I have even raised it up one click on the mount on the rare occasion there is 4 of us in the cockpit and it's calm out . It is a bit heavy tho.

Angus
Tempus
#4748
1984 Catalina 25 SK/SR/Trad.
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4301 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2019 :  06:09:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a Honda 4 stroke 25 extra long shaft on Passage (thanks to her P.O.) and I sail Long Island Sound.
We get this wicked chop on an ESE wind that apparently starts in Portugal.
Add to that, when the tide goes out the mouth of the river flowing ESE it develops a quarter-mile stretch of six foot breakers (no 5h!+) that pretty much stops all but the hardiest or foolhardiest boaters.
At one point I was in a situation where I was out and had to come in. That was the only time I was worried about not getting enough "bite" with the extra long shaft engine.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain Milford, CT
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3543 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2019 :  06:32:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yamaha is a good brand and the 25" shaft makes a big difference. Also a little extra HP doesn't hurt. What's really the deciding factor is that it's used and reconditioned. Well reconditioned is a broad term so I would find out what was done and is there some sort of guarantee on their work. That leaves the price. Do you think it's fair? That's all up to you to decide. Keep in mind that you have your engine to sell to offset the price.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound



Edited by - islander on 03/07/2019 06:48:26
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cat25
Navigator

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USA
105 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2019 :  07:37:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a Honda XHA long shaft 9.9. The extra long shaft really is a plus, works great.

Ken
Chenango~
1990~TR~WK~C25~#6022
Stamford Ct/LI Sound
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
8191 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2019 :  08:59:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When I bought Voyager's Honda (an 8--the same engine as the 9.9 except for the cam and the price), I looked at the Yamaha High Thrust... I liked the shift on the long tiller handle (Honda's is on the front of the powerhead). I didn't like that at that time the Yamaha had electric start but no pull starter (unless you had a wrench to disassemble the interior somewhat to be able to wrap a rope on the flywheel). That was the deal-breaker for me. The Honda also had a 12 amp alternator to Yamaha's 6--I figured that could help with charging on with short runs from and to the dock.

Both are heavy--over 110 lbs. compared to the older Tohatsu 9.8, which was lighter but now is not available with a 25" shaft. Tohatsu's new fuel injected 9.9 offers 25" and, with electric start, is apparently about as heavy. The EFI could be a breakthrough for smaller outboards--it "should" eliminate the problems many here have had with clogged idle jets in 4-stroke carbs. It's pretty new, but Tohatsu has a good reputation world-wide. I would give it a serious look.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-OUPV
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/07/2019 09:05:22
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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3225 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2019 :  09:27:47  Show Profile  Visit OLarryR's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have a Honda 9.9 25" shaft and works in storm conditions. Had a similar experience reported above on a day that had a freakish storm/wind condition and was also concerned about getting enough bite out of the outboard to get me turned into the wind but after a couple of tries, it successfully got me out of trouble and under control.

On a separate note, when I come back to the dock, I like to keep my outboard in the raised vertical position. My Garhauer bracket is in a good mounting location that only one prop remains in the water in that raised position and since I am in freshwater, I like keeping in the vertical and it works for me. When lowered it is significantly lowered - even if I am in the next to lowest locked position, it is sufficiently in the water to get out and back into the marina, though, I am almost always using the lowest locked position.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Wash DC http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html
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jduck00
Captain

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USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2019 :  19:30:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have an older 9.9 High thrust, extra long shaft on a swing keel and it works great. Its heavy, but has plenty of power when you get caught in a blow up. I've never had the prop come out of the water, and I've been caught in some weather where I was putting the bow under water up to the front hatch.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
8191 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2019 :  21:59:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It should be mentioned that "high thrust" generally means more propeller blade area (either 4 blades or 3 larger ones) and lower pitch (which works like a lower gear in a car). The result is better acceleration and deceleration for maneuvering around a dock, but (like the lower gear) somewhat higher revs and fuel consumption at cruising speed. My (now Voyager's) high-thrust Honda stopped the boat in her slip as if she'd run into a pillow. (Another factor may have been Honda's diversion of the exhaust away from the prop when in reverse, for better bite.) It probably ate a little more gas, but I never tried to measure that and didn't care. It pushed the boat to 5 - 5.5 knots at half to 2/3 throttle--faster was not worth the noise, and 6 is about the limit regardless of thrust.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-OUPV
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/07/2019 22:00:49
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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1418 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2019 :  17:57:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ergonomics play a big part in engine selection. Look at how the tilt release operates as well as the weight. If the release is easy it makes a huge difference. Ditto, you want the cover to be fastened in a way that it is secure and regardless of age or conditions, when you grab and pull, it stays connected to the rest of the engine!

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1733 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2019 :  18:39:12  Show Profile  Visit Leon Sisson's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Here are my thoughts and experiences with a mid-1990's 4-stroke Yamaha 9.9HP extra long shaft high thrust on a Catalina 25 (swing keel), in saltwater.

These are heavy motors! The guy I got mine from used to lug it to and from the boat each outing. I don't see how he managed it. The few times I had to wrestle it on or off the boat in the water were stressful.

The performance is outstanding! So much thrust, even in reverse. Not only are the prop blades the size of paddles, the gear ratio is numerically higher as well.



The exhaust-through-the-hub has an unusual twist. To prevent exhaust gases from turning reverse thrust into froth, the exhaust can exit either in front of or behind the prop, depending upon which direction the prop is spinning.

The Yamaha 9.9T pushes my boat at hull speed around 1/3 to 1/2 throttle, well below max engine speed. At least as quiet as similar water cooled 4-stroke twins.

I don't recall the prop ever sucking air. I really like having the shift lever on the tiller it's so much easier and safer than fumbling around the side of a motor while docking. (In order to shift a Yamaha 4HP on a Catalina 22, I have to let go of the tiller, turn around, squeeze past backstay under stern rail, then nearly stand on my head to reach the shifter.)

The Yamaha 9.9 has a replaceable oil filter, although still not as fine as I'd like. It's electric start only, no recoil, only rope hand wrapped on pulley after removing cam belt cover in a dead battery emergency. They come with reasonably good charging systems, but I'd say a dedicated cranking battery, and optional battery combiner relay, would be prudent.

Water pump is kinda low volume, impeller needs to be like new to cool at idle.

After many years of salt water use, these tend to develop problems in certain specific areas. The the thermostat and cylinder head cooling passages just below it can get clogged with salt.

Those cylinder head bolts which are inside the water jacket can become hopelessly seized. (I broke an engine block trying to get a head off.) As I recall, some head bolt holes can also crack the head from expanding corrosion.

The long studs through the extra long leg extension can have a similar stainless-steel-seized-in-aluminum-hole problem.

Although changing the water pump impeller is about the same as any other small outboard, replacing the gear case seals can present a problem. After removing the prop and a couple small retaining bolts, the rear seal and bearing housing is supposed to slide right out with the help of a factory puller. Not having that puller, I agreed to a $100 "sure, we can do that in a day, no problem" quote from a Yamaha dealer. Four weeks and $450 later, I finally got my motor back, and never returned to that shop. One of the pithier quotes was, "I have an oxy-acetylene rig at home. I could have screwed it up this bad myself, without having to pay you." (Sorry for the rant. I start frothing at the mouth every time I think about it)

The area just above the above-water exhaust exit can crack and break away.

Not bad yet...


After big chunk fell away...


I have one which also did it from the side.
Good side (of hole-in-the-back motor)...


Bad side (of motor still good in the back)...


Let me emphasize, I still consider these to be the most cost-effective motors for a Catalina 25, and I will be putting another one back on mine. After all, I have so many spare parts!

-- Leon Sisson

Leon Sisson
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JanS48
Navigator

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USA
100 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2019 :  20:54:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greetings, it's been a while since I've been here.
I have a C25 powered by a 15hp Mercury. That said, the Mercury engine IS a Yamaha, also the older 15 hp (4 stroke) model that I have is essentially a 9.9 with a bit bigger carb and different cam so I'm told.
Anyway, this came as a 20 in shaft, I have since installed an 5" extension kit (approx $ 400). This worked nicely getting the prop deep down so it performs well in chop. It gets hull speed at a little over 1/2 throttle. If I really push it in calm water I can get over 7k with a big 'bump' behind the boat.
Frankly I'm not thrilled with the engine, it's a 03. When it starts it has a very loud knocking noise which I'm told is the fuel pump mechanism until it gets charged with fuel. I have had the head off and there is no play at all in the rods, so I have to go with the expert advice to not worry about the start noise. On the plus side I have made quite a few 15+ mile trips with the engine even in 15k+ wind without issue, it's also very good on fuel.
All that said my next engine will be a Honda, In-my-humble-opinion they are made better.
Jan


82 C25 SR FK
Sailing out of Newport Harbor.
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Sailingoldsailor
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2019 :  07:34:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,
I have been having computer problems so have not replied but I very much appreciate all the great advice.

It raises one question for me - I have upgraded to the new Catalina Direct motor mount and the motor mount interior reinforcing brace for heavier engines. Which raises the question about what height have you placed the engine mount? I have been told to raise the mount with the 25" extra long shaft for ergonomic reasons.
What have others done? with my current 20" shat I lowered the mount one hole about and inch to guard against cavitation when the larger swells arrive. Is there any concern lowering the engine too much ?

Thanks in advance!
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3543 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2019 :  08:40:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No real need to change the mount position for a longer shaft engine. The head of the motor will still be at the same position relative to you regardless of shaft length. The only difference is that the extra long shaft will put the prop @ 5" lower in the water vs the long shaft.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound



Edited by - islander on 04/16/2019 08:41:38
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