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 Privacy Bulkhead removal		  New Topic  Topic Locked
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RandyAmy
1st Mate

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USA
40 Posts
Initially Posted - 07/30/2018 :  12:17:25  Show Profile
Has anyone had any experience with removing the bulkheads between the head/sink and V-berth? These have no chain plates attached to them so I am wondering if they are for privacy vs. structure. The boat doesn't have a head or sink installed and being 6'4", the extra V-berth length would be really nice.
Randy Clason

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts
Response Posted - 07/30/2018 :  17:40:46  Show Profile
Hmmm .... good question and good idea to us the vee berth in this way. First I have no experience doing this, so that’s out of the way. And the mast sits atop the post in the rear bulkhead. It’s very possible that these two bulkheads support or stiffen the cabin top up forward of the mast.
Would you extend the flat area at the same height as the vee berth? What would you do with the space underneath? How would you access it?
All said, have you ever slept in the vee berth? It’s pretty bouncy when the water is not dead calm. Similar to the quarter berth, you be rocking at anchor. But to take advantage of the additional space, go for it!
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts
Response Posted - 07/30/2018 :  17:47:12  Show Profile
Hmmm...that's a structural change...IMHO it just seems prudent to not change it, even if there is no clearly obvious reason for ity's existence. If it were there for just privacy, it wouldn't need to be as structural as it is …???
Jerry
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts
Response Posted - 07/30/2018 :  21:09:56  Show Profile
I seem to recall someone cutting out much of the forward bulkheads while leaving an arch in place underneath the cabin top. Not sure how much material was left or whether a center post was installed to handle loading. It’s definitely possible to experiment removing the bulkheads entirely and checking for flex inside while a 100# person walks on the cabin or while heeling under sail. If a problem is seen you can always replace the bulkheads.
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 07/30/2018 :  22:07:45  Show Profile
You want to spend nights on a boat with no head?

I might ask Gerry Douglas at Catalina, but I'm guessing it would have no significant effect. The forward bulkhead is very close to the forward end of the cabin trunk, which provides its own structural support. I think it was just meant to create a private head (unlike the smaller cousins with porta-potties between the v-berths ). The important support is from the bulkhead with the compression post and the chain-plates, which is very close. There's nothing between that one and the companionway bulkhead, and the cabin-top supports the heavy pop-top and people walking all over it back there.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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RandyAmy
1st Mate

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USA
40 Posts
Response Posted - 07/31/2018 :  03:26:47  Show Profile
Voyager, we just sail on a relatively small inland reservoir in Indiana, so we don't get crazy rough water, plus 10 hp motor restrictions so that eliminates a lot of chop.
The bulkheads don't seem to be as heavy structurally as the bulkhead aft of the head.
I have thought about taking them out and walking around on top to see how it goes. Probably need to convince the admiral to go first since she is a whole lot closer to 100# than I am!! Can do the weight check in stages!
Randy Clason
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DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts
Response Posted - 07/31/2018 :  04:25:35  Show Profile
Someone did it and posted pictures already. Try searching further to see if you can find it.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 07/31/2018 :  06:10:27  Show Profile
Here's one discussion.

Here's another (with some references to archived threads I didn't seek out).

A variation that could add some leg room for one while retaining a place for a porta-pottie or whatever would be to remove just the starboard side and lengthen that side of the v-berth into the space where many C-25s have a second sink and some owners have made hanging lockers.

Here's an extreme variation.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/31/2018 06:31:06
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Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts
Response Posted - 07/31/2018 :  07:24:39  Show Profile  Visit Bladeswell's Homepage
Hello Everyone,

Having removed and replaced my bulkheads, I can tell you that they are the same thickness at just 1/2". I am also quite sure that Dave is right about the forward bulkhead not being structural. I also suspect that the main bulkheads are also non structural being only 1/2" with the main source of structural support coming from the mast compression post. I am curious as to the "why" of it all when (if I remember right) the quarter berth is 6'6". Both bunks require just a bit of acrobatics to get in and out of anyway. But if you choose to do it, I can't see any reason why it would hurt anything other than just maybe resale value.

Bladeswell
C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.
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Sailynn
Navigator

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USA
178 Posts
Response Posted - 07/31/2018 :  20:02:12  Show Profile
I would want to speak to Catalina Yachts since there may be a structural reason which would have a affect on your liabilities is something goes wrong.
Lynn Buchanan
1988 C25 SR/WK #5777
Sailynn
Nevada City, CA
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts
Response Posted - 07/31/2018 :  20:10:36  Show Profile
The real structural element is the compression post but also do not discount the upper shroud chainplates. The mast would not stand very long without these and they too are bolted to the bulkhead.
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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RandyAmy
1st Mate

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USA
40 Posts
Response Posted - 08/01/2018 :  04:47:07  Show Profile
Chain plates are bolted to the bulkhead between the head and V-berth?
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts
Response Posted - 08/01/2018 :  05:39:17  Show Profile
The chain plates are bolted to the aft bulkhead and has nothing to do with the forward bulkhead that you want to remove. I would be more concerned about the forward lower shrouds. They are connected to the deck with backing plates. It's possible the forward bulkhead is needed to support and strengthen the deck against the upward pull of the shroud keeping the deck from being pulled up. Not a structural engineer but something to consider.
Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


Edited by - islander on 08/01/2018 05:58:52
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 08/01/2018 :  09:58:05  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by islander

...I would be more concerned about the forward lower shrouds. They are connected to the deck with backing plates. It's possible the forward bulkhead is needed to support and strengthen the deck against the upward pull of the shroud keeping the deck from being pulled up...
It's not clear to me how.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts
Response Posted - 08/01/2018 :  10:05:56  Show Profile
As said before by others, I would consult with Catalina Yachts before pursing such a project. While most likely not structural as far as rigging is concerned, it may help decrease the possibility of "oil canning" in rough conditions or reduce flex, which could cause other problems, in the deck above.
Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT
Edited by - bigelowp on 08/01/2018 14:04:28
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts
Response Posted - 08/01/2018 :  11:31:18  Show Profile
Hmmm. I doubt Catalina would say that it would be OK to remove a bulkhead just for liability reasons.
Dave,The forward shrouds are mounted to the deck between the 2 bulkheads. Both bulkheads are screwed to the deck and again down below. It could be that the 2 bulkheads give strength to that area of the deck similar to rafters in a roof. Downward pressure when you walk on the deck and upward pressure when the boat is heeled over and the shrouds are pulling up. Like I said I'm not a structural engineer but I do know its not a good idea to pull rafters out of my roof
Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


Edited by - islander on 08/01/2018 12:05:59
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