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kwalsh
1st Mate

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USA
33 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/21/2018 : 08:18:56

Hello All,
We are new to Catalina and recently purchased C25 TR, SK. Upon inspecting the mast before stepping, we noticed a crack clear through one of two bridges on top of the truck. The other bridge is showing signs of wear. According to Catalina Direct, these are no longer manufactured and they no longer have a supply. Looking for a replacement or work around. Suggestions welcomed. Many thanks!
Kevin J Walsh

Kevin Walsh
Segelboot
1984 C25, TR/SK
Sail No. 4433

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2018 : 09:54:49

You probably saw my reply to your similar message on the Testing forum, where I suggested posting it here, but I'll repeat for record for anyone else... It's unfortunate news that Catalina Direct no longer can obtain the casting, and finding another could be difficult, although people do part out C-25s now and then. I suggested, worst case (or maybe in any event), trying some JB Weld, a steel-reinforced epoxy that has been used on things like cracked engine blocks, and has a good reputation among mechanics and others.

Another epoxy product called Belzona 1111 is said to be even better, but is EX$PENSIVE and available only in commercial quantities from a distributor here in the US. I'm going with JB Weld for a little issue in my big Honda outboard, as recommended by a Honda guru who services motors for the USCG among others.

Best of luck, and welcome to the community!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/21/2018 10:07:04

Erik Cornelison
Navigator

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USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2018 : 10:10:28

You might try asking around some small local machine shops and local fabrication shops.Take the part with you. Some shops might be able to make a new one, some might be really high priced. Ask around for a small shop working out of his garage, those guys like these little projects and won't break the bank (sometimes).
Erik

Erik Cornelison
6th Generation Professional Sailor, First Gen Submarine Sailor.
1986 Standard Rig SW. #5234

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2018 : 13:58:11

Hello Kevin,

And welcome to the group. I'm not sure What part or parts you are describing. But I do see that it involves a possible mast replacement. I also don't know where you might be. If you were here in my area, (Southern California) we have a place called Minnie's Yacht Surplus. As the name implies, they sell used yacht parts of all males and sizes. I will sooner or later be picking up a replacement boom for my boat and having called them, their most expensive boom would not exceed $200. Which is a very good deal. I'm not sure how that would reflect to a mast but I believe they would be reasonably priced. You could get lucky and find an actual C25 mast there. But it doesn't have to be an actual C25 mast to work. It only needs to be the correct length, size and sail track size. So, if you bought one that was maybe a foot or two longer it wouldn't be a big deal to cut it to the right size. Try looking for a yacht salvage yard in your area. Best of luck.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2018 : 14:20:39

quote:
Originally posted by Bladeswell

...I'm not sure What part or parts you are describing. But I do see that it involves a possible mast replacement.

I take his description to be the mast-head casting, which CD no longer shows for the C-25 on their site. However, they still show one for the C-27, and I've seen rumors that the C-25 tall rig has the same mast extrusion as the C-27. If true, that means CD's C-27 mast-head might work (if they still have it). The page linked to here shows the cross-section dimensions of the mast it's made for. If that matches, I would call them to see what they know. You might have a shot at one of the last ones...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2018 : 14:23:50

Aluminum welding is also a possibility. I'm not sure about welding an aluminum casting, but would take it to a quality shop and get an opinion before epoxying. The truck is the masthead casting, not the mast itself.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Erik Cornelison
Navigator

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USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2018 : 14:25:27

Why not get it repaired? A crack? TIG welding comes to mind.

Erik Cornelison
6th Generation Professional Sailor, First Gen Submarine Sailor.
1986 Standard Rig SW. #5234

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2018 : 14:29:51

Hello All,

Thanks for clearing that up Dave. I just wasn't sure what he was describing. So, I would call Minnie's and ask if they might have on in stock and get it shipped if they do. Minnie's Yacht Surplus, Costa Mesa,Ca.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2018 : 14:58:22

businesses similar to this might also be worth contacting: https://www.facebook.com/1752320188383574/photos/1752321105050149/

They are currently disposing of a C-25 and C-27

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Edited by - Dave5041 on 04/21/2018 14:58:59

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2018 : 19:00:51

Is it possible to find a guy who could do some 3D printing? I think that�s a resin-based process but I�ve seen guys build 3D wire frames in a CAD program that models the parts exactly, and print them out in 15-20 minutes.
Of course nothing beats a salvage part if it�s in good shape.
Best bet, make a scale drawing in front view, rear view, top view and side view and check the dimensions of other currently available mast-head fittings. You might get lucky.
And if nothing else works, get yourself some JB Weld. I swear by it.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Erik Cornelison
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2018 : 19:38:50

Ok seeing what others have said, if the part is cast aluminum, just braze it. Easy Peazy. You could probably do it yourself.

Erik Cornelison
6th Generation Professional Sailor, First Gen Submarine Sailor.
1986 Standard Rig SW. #5234

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2018 : 20:25:40

Maybe YOU could...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2018 : 20:35:39

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

Is it possible to find a guy who could do some 3D printing? I think that�s a resin-based process...

Bruce: Have you seen 3-D printing outputs? What I've seen is very lightweight plastic--impressive shapes, but, I could never imagine pulling a halyard board-tight against sheaves in a mast-head crane made of that--at least not more than a couple of times, each time suspecting the sail might be coming down in a gust, at which point the mast also comes down (given that the fore- and back-stays are also attached). There's a reason the original is a heavy-duty aluminum casting.

In fact, cancel my JB Weld suggestion--I don't want to be responsible.

Find another casting or an experienced aluminum welder who will understand the loads on the piece.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/21/2018 20:45:10

Erik Cornelison
Navigator

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USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2018 : 06:56:55

Kevin, don't make a mountain out of a mole hill. Take the part off, go down to a marine fabrication repair shop and have the cast aluminum part TIG welded. Those shops do this all the time. Your in New York....there's probably as many repair shops with 30 miles as my entire state. Do it and report back how easy it was..

Erik Cornelison
6th Generation Professional Sailor, First Gen Submarine Sailor.
1986 Standard Rig SW. #5234

Lee Panza
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
465 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2018 : 11:48:01

quote:
Originally posted by kwalsh

...we noticed a crack clear through one of two bridges on top of the truck. The other bridge is showing signs of wear...

Kevin, I'm having difficulty comprehending the damage you're describing, so I can't properly respond to your concern. Depending on where the damage actually is this could be an extremely serious matter or one of relatively minor concern.

Here's a link to a page on the Association's website where the original parts catalog is reproduced:

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/manbro/pictures/pc14.gif

This shows the masthead casting, which is commonly referred to as a truck - the word you used. There are two thin "bridges" between the main sideplates. If these are the parts you're referring to it would be quite surprising that one is cracked clear through. It's also strange that the other is showing wear.

These are meant to be reinforcing to assure that any side-loads on either sideplate are shared by the other one. The pins that serve as pivots for the sheaves, and the pins that anchor the forestay and backstay, should also serve to hold the two sideplates together.

This being said, if a side-load of such magnitude was applied to one sideplate that it could have caused one of those bridges to split I would have expected the sideplate itself to have cracked and probably to have broken off catastrophically. In the case of a sailboat, that last word is especially appropriate, because that would almost certainly have resulted in the whole rig going over the side. At the very least, if the sideplate flexed outward enough to crack the bridge it should have resulted in a crack on the inside of the sideplate down near the base.

I can't realistically imagine a scenario in reasonably normal usage that could cause one of those bridges to crack. I'm wondering about the "wear" that the other bridge is showing: what could have caused that wear? The only thing my imagination could come up with is that someone might have hoisted the mast by feeding a cable under those bridges and lifting the entire mast by them. Does the wear you mentioned to seem consistent with this?

So, finally, if these are indeed the "bridges" you're referring to, and if you don't see evidence that one of the sideplates had flexed outward, I wouldn't think this is a major concern. The primary forces in this casting are from the forestay and backstay trying to pull the ends of the sideplates downward. These forces are relatively equal on each side, in the static condition, although there are comparatively minor sideloads imposed when the sails are dragging the top of the mast sideways.

It may not even be necessary to repair this. If the hoisting scenario I suggested seems likely, then this should never recur. Welding or brazing it might be a good idea, but an alternate approach might be to bend a stainless steel strap to fit over the top as an inverted U fastened to the outer sides of both sideplates.

Of course, everything I've said here is based on my presumption that the "bridge" is cracked across in a fore-and-aft direction, if it is cracked from one sideplate to the other that would suggest a far more serious situation: such a crack would propagate down though the sideplates as the forestay and backstay pull both ends of the sideplates down. Fortunately, that would be evident and you didn't mention cracks in the sideplates.

I'm curious about what might have caused this, so I'm hoping you will respond with more information. Whenever I learn of something new that could go wrong I want to know as much as I can about it in the hopes of preventing it from happening to me. Thanks in advance for your follow-up.

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2018 : 12:06:02

The trouble here is that there are no photos. That leaves us guessing at the problem and the extent of the damage. A picture is worth a thousand words people....

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2018 : 15:31:24

I agree with Lee and Scott: This could be critical to the whole rig, or incidental, and we can be much more confident in our recommendations with a picture or two. A quick tutorial on posting photos here is as follows:

1. Upload the photo to any photo site (except Photobucket). I use Shutterfly, and members can use the Photo Gallery on this site.
2. On that site, copy (right-click in Windows) the image address.
3. In your post, click

on the toolbar, and then paste the image address between the ] and the [ of the two "img" tags are placed in your post.

Looking forward...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/22/2018 15:32:55

kwalsh
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
33 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2018 : 08:07:59

24 Apr 2018, 1045 hrs
All,
We can't thank everyone enough for their replies and even study to the situation of the truck to the mast of our Catalina 25 TR/SK. We count at east six Members providing approximately thirteen messages to our call for help as of yesterday. We only wish we could navigate as quickly these portals. Initially, I asked for help from Paul Alcock, who helped us last year with a system navigation inquiry, to help us learn how to get our message on-line ASAP in trying to save a sailing season.
Dave, we think its was you who re-directed us from the Test portal to the C 25 Specific portal. We are gathering all the information everyone is sending.
Scott, we have photos on our iPhone, but are clueless as to how to post them here. Need more training. If you can help us wth that, we are fast learners.
Lee, many thanks for the link to the parts manual. Your are correct about the bridges. On the link, see no. five and the black colored line that traverses a bridge connecting the two sides and moving up the diagram to the corresponding bridge. It is the aft-side bridge that is cracked right through and in the middle and the forward-side bridge is showing remarkable wear, like a saddle when we touch it. The crack itself is runs parallel to the sides or aft to forward. I hope this describes the situation. We've owned the vessel three years, purchasing it from a true sailor and Catalina lover who owned it for about ten years and in all this time the mast has not been lifted by a crane type strap around the truck and out of the boat. Before then, we do not know. For the past 13 years, the mast has been stepped and unstepped mannually by the marina staff. Here in the northeast we unstep and step every season. The task itself can be challenging at times, but the benefit is in the opportunities it provides for inspection of what otherwise is too difficult to do. You all know that. This year we are re-rigging the boat and this is when we discovered the crack.
Erik, we think it was you who suggested not to make a mountain out of it and Sunday we decided on corrective action. We are fortunate to have our motor mechanic at the marina, he is truly a jack-of-all trades when it comes to marina stuff, but if he doesn't know, he knows someone who does. Our boating community is smallish but he is bringing the truck to a welder who will TIG weld it and weld a support strap over each bridge. Some replies to our message suggested measured concern and others put us at ease. But, when our mechanic began using the very same terms, products and processes that we had read about on the thirteen messages the decision to give the instructions on Sunday was easy. We should have the repaired truck in hand next weekend to continue our project of re-rigging. With a little good luck we'll be happily sailing by Memorial Day!
Thank you also to Bladeswell and Bruce Ross for your comments. All are valuable. If we manage to navigate these pages adequately, we'll post how it all works out.
Again, many thanks to all!

Kevin Walsh
Segelboot
1984 C25, TR/SK
Sail No. 4433

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