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Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/05/2018 : 13:37:55

Hello Again Everyone,

Sorry about the drama. During my only sail when I finally had some good wind, I discovered that my boat was taking on water. Now, my boat's hull is solid at the moment. Meaning she has no thru hulls or any other holes below the water line where she could leak from. The only hole I know of is above the water line at the transom where the bilge pump water would exit. So during sailing on that day, I did have her rail right near or sometimes just in the water. (Just because I like it.) So my guess is that I may have a problem at the hull to deck joint somewhere. And I don't know weather it is portside or starboard. My galley cabinets are not yet reinstalled, so it was quite easy to see the water sloshing around. I would guess she had taken on about 15 gallons by the time I returned to my slip.
I was never really concerned that much. I never felt in immanent danger of sinking. I was just annoyed. So if I am correct about the hull to deck joint, is this something I will be able to take care of myself or will this require the deck to be lifted clear of the hull and then rebedded ? Of coarse, the easiest fix would be "Don't lay her on her ear.' Thanks guys.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

JB
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
110 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2018 : 13:44:55

Did you eliminate keel and rudder gudgeon bolts as possible sources?

1988 C25 Wing Keel Std Rig Tohatsu 9.9 Tiller Steering and 2003 C250 Wing Keel Std Rig Inboard Diesel Wheel Steering

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2018 : 14:06:49

Anything is possible, but I think it's probably not a leak in the hull/deck joint. I'd recommend that you turn a garden hose on the boat and see if that gives you a clue where it's coming in. Check the coach roof, the side decks and the hull/deck joint.

Taste it to see if it's salty. If not, it's possible that it's from your fresh water tank, or a bilge full of rainwater. The water tank might have a crack that doesn't leak until the boat is heeled sharply.

You have one good clue. Wherever the leak is, it must be fairly significant to let in that much water, so that should make it easy to find.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2018 : 14:13:16

Did you confirm that the water was saltwater?

On my current boat, I've had a couple of freshwater system leaks that only show up in rough conditions.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

Bladeswell
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2018 : 14:30:13

Hi Guys,

I must say that I did not confirm that it was salt water, however it could not have been from my fresh water tank or system as the tank is currently empty and not yet plumbed in. I suppose it could have been rain water and I just didn't notice until underway. But I don't recall it ever leaking or having that much water in her before after a rain. My keel bolts are all tight and solid as well as the rudder's pintles. The next time I am at the boat with an extra hand, I will do as suggested with the water hose and see what I can find. Thanks again everyone.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2018 : 14:55:34

Your cockpit drains are in the floor, aren't they? Turn your hose on them and check to see if the hoses connected to them are leaking. Check both ends of those hoses. They probably empty through the hull somewhere. Those old hoses are probably original and probably dried and cracked. It's possible that they could have emptied rainwater from the cockpit into the boat when it rained, or perhaps they siphoned water in when under way.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Bladeswell
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2018 : 15:03:00

Thanks Steve,

I had not thought of that. Yes, my cockpit drains are in the floor at the stern. I will check out those hoses and connections.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2018 : 19:45:37

I frequently have water in the bilge, on the floor, etc. but it has never been salt (I am on LI Sound) water. I can tell you that water gets in around the hatch boards, especially if it either is a heavy rain or blowing, and through the older (non solar) micro vent if I do not close it. As long as it is fresh water I accept the nuisance. If it is salt water, then the search begins. As stated, check you cockpit drain hoses to see if they are routed the proper way. If you are healing significantly while sailing, improperly routed drains could begin to work in reverse!

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2018 : 15:58:02

Here's a tip. We keep an aquarium salinity refractometer on board. A couple of drops of water on the lense and you can immediately tell fresh or saltwater.

They can be had on eBay for about twenty bucks.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

odonnellryanc
Navigator

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108 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2018 : 07:19:16

The bilge drain on my boat ('82) will leak into the bilge if I heel over a LOT to port. It doesn't get much water in there, but it does get wet. We'll end up with maybe a cup or two of water after sailing this way for a while.

You're not supposed to put any check valves in the bilge line, and the line has a loop that is as high as I can get it... so beyond rerouting the bilge thru-hull to be in a more center position on the transom I think it's one of those "live with it" things.

Bladeswell
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2018 : 09:58:18

Hello again,

That last could very well be the answer. My bilge pump is not yet installed and I have a bilge pump hose in the dumpster that is connected to the transom thru hull intended for that purpose. And while that thru hull is "normally" above the water line, I don't know if it slips below the water when heeled. I will need to take a look over the transom while heeled. But more importantly, That hose is not looped upward and is connected to nothing at the pump end. So a temporary solution might be to put a plug in the open end of that hose. Thanks again everyone. You guys always seem to come up with things I didn't consider.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

odonnellryanc
Navigator

Members Avatar

108 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2018 : 10:05:47

If it is like my boat it does go underwater occasionally. https://i.imgur.com/o6BIovn.png

That isn't my boat, but that's how mine is setup. Unfortunately with this like it is it is possible for some water to flow back into the bilge.

Even if you have the bilge pump hooked up (I have mine setup) you'll probably still get water through it sometimes. Definitely check the seal to make sure the fitting is in good condition when you can, though.

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2018 : 12:02:32

The manual bilge pump most of us have in the dumpster is essentially a double check-valve, so very little if any water should flow through it from the transom to the bilge. A detached hose on the other hand.....

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2018 : 10:00:59

We had a discussion on the bilge hose some time ago and I mentioned at that time one thing not to overlook - Since the bilge drain is located semi-close to the waterline, it can go below the waterline when heeled over or when you have a lot of passengers onboard. Everyone should ensure that the bilge hose connected to the outlet on the transom, that the clamp is securely fastened. Given the age of our boats, the rubber hose deteriorates to some degree and that SS hose clamp may become loose. Actually, the SS Clamp to the bilge pump can also become loose and if the zip tie that supports the hose just below the dumpster cover, ever breaks, the hose may fall off the bilge pump connector if that clamp is not holding the hose securely to the bilge pump outlet. But the main concern would be the clamp on the bilge drain outlet on the transom - If that clamp is not tight/secured, that would be an entry point for water to come in and settle in the bottom of the bilge.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Erik Cornelison
Navigator

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USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2018 : 10:13:44

Here's a weird sailing only leak I had:

I had a leak on my ole Dutchcraft 23 while sailing at a heel, but we couldn't figure out where the water was coming in. It turned out the boat had been "bumped" by someone in the marina just above the waterline. The dent slightly pushed in a a hand sized area that let water in while sailing at a heal. The dent was hard to see and was only noticed while we beached the boat at low tide to inspect the centerboard cable.

Erik Cornelison
6th Generation Professional Sailor, First Gen Submarine Sailor.
1986 Standard Rig SW. #5234

Sailynn
Navigator

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USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2018 : 23:04:52

It could be backing up or leaking in or from the bow anchor locker

Lynn Buchanan
1988 C25 SR/WK #5777
Sailynn
Nevada City, CA

keats
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
215 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2018 : 11:17:43

quote:
Originally posted by Sailynn

It could be backing up or leaking in or from the bow anchor locker

I learned the hard way to clean the anchor and chain completely each time I bring it in. My anchor locker drain is thinner than a pencil at the top and plugged completely with clay and gravel last winter. We had a lot of rain. Muddy water cascading onto the v-berth cushions, to the compartment below and on into the bilge.

Not good.

Lazy work on my part and completely avoidable.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

JB
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
110 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2018 : 17:02:16

Yep, just like the bulkheads on the Titanic the anchor locker is not sealed at the top.

1988 C25 Wing Keel Std Rig Tohatsu 9.9 Tiller Steering and 2003 C250 Wing Keel Std Rig Inboard Diesel Wheel Steering

alfreddiaz
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2018 : 16:51:02

I have the same problem on my 1981 Cat 25 SK. It isn't a lot of water. And it only shows up after a good sail. I have some suspicions. And I am going to try and figure it out this year. I am going to start by sealing the stern bilge drains and seeing what happens when I go out in a heavy sail (mind you I am only talking 12 to 15 knots in lake conditions).

I will add that I don't get any leakage when she is in her slip. and to dry her out, I just set a fan blowing into the bilge opening and come back a few days later, at which point she is as dry as a bone.

So, if you figure it out, please post. And if I figure it out, I will do the same.

I will note that I had suspected the bilge pump drain. but there is a loop in it to keep backflow from happening. Might be from the rails hitting the water. Hard to tell. But I will start by temporarily sealing the bilge and stern scupper drain and seeing if that makes a difference.

I will add it was troubling the first time I saw it. Now I have kind of gotten used to it.

Thanks for posting.

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