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Second set of jib winches

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HappyNow
1st Mate

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USA
99 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/13/2017 : 21:17:22

I find myself frequently singlehanding in winds of 15 to 20, gusting to 25. I've started sailing more and more with just the jib, no main, and the boat handles very well. Tonight I was out with the 135 jib furled three or four turns and the boat was very comfortable. Heeled about 15 degrees, and in gusts to about 25 when close hauled, which feels comfortable when single handing with a wheel. I'd like to add a second set of jib winches that I can reach from the wheel. I've found a close out on Lewmar EVO self tailing single speed black aluminum size 15 drum for $400 each. I'd appreciate some feedback.

Michael Levin
Sailin' on Sunshine
C250 #402 WK
Lake Tahoe

kjk
1st Mate

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USA
91 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2017 : 04:35:27

Wait until next March, and West Marine will have a twofer on those. Got mine then.

Kevin J. Kiely
Rockport, MA
1999WK
Hull # 407

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2269 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2017 : 08:11:28

If you have autopilot, another option might be a remote control which allows you to autotack from the companionway.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

HappyNow
1st Mate

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USA
99 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2017 : 10:58:44

I don't have an autopilot. So I think I will buy the winches. KJK-- do you know if West Marine has that sale every year? If so, I can wait. Also I'm thinking of mounting them over the coaming boxes, as that looks like I can reach them and a pretty straight run from jib cars. Does that sound right? Also, time to replace jib sheets anyway. Do you know what length your sheets are? Thanks.

Michael Levin
Sailin' on Sunshine
C250 #402 WK
Lake Tahoe

kjk
1st Mate

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USA
91 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2017 : 11:03:45

Apparently they have the same sale every year. I though it was a typo when I got the circular. If you check the archives, most that have added them do so over the coamings with blocks located such that they sheets wrap correctly. While I finally got around to installing them earlier this month, I have not had a chance to add the blocks or swap out the sheets yet.

Kevin J. Kiely
Rockport, MA
1999WK
Hull # 407

TEM58
Navigator

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USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2017 : 20:13:23

I took advantage of the BOGO sale at WM last year. Picked up a set of 15ST and have been pleased with the mod. Here's my post about it http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=29771&SearchTerms=Sheet,winch. The only thing I've changed since the photo is to add turning blocks on the upper stanchions rather than the fairleads shown. Greatly reduced the friction and let the sheet run a little more freely. There are several other folks that have done similar installations, so have a look in the archives also. I have a tiller, and this placement works well. You may want them further aft with a wheel though.

Tim M
�Perfect Match II�
2003 C350 #35
Cruising FL
PO "Wine Down"
2000 C250 WK #453
PO "Perfect Match"
1983 C25 SR/SK #3932
Lake Belton
Belton, TX

Edited by - TEM58 on 08/14/2017 20:15:18

HappyNow
1st Mate

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USA
99 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2017 : 21:27:41

Thanks Tim. I had already looked up your previous post which was helpful because I didn't realize I needed the turning blocks. I was going to email you to see if you remembered the length of your jib sheets.

Michael Levin
Sailin' on Sunshine
C250 #402 WK
Lake Tahoe

kjk
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
91 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2017 : 04:40:19

Tim, what size were the 4 blocks?

Kevin J. Kiely
Rockport, MA
1999WK
Hull # 407

TEM58
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2017 : 17:47:57

Michael, the sheets are 65'. With that winch placement and a 110 the length is perfect.
This is the line I used, but it's like talking about anchors-- everyone has a favorite. https://www.westmarine.com/buy/new-england-ropes--regatta-polyester-single-braid-price-per-foot--P002_071_001_002 (Got it on sale also). The jib sheets on the boat when I bought it barely reached the cabin top winches.

Kevin, those are 40mm Harken furler lead blocks. I had some on hand for the original installation, and when I decided to add two more I trolled eBay for a while to save on the cost. Honestly I think a swivelling fairlead would work just as well. You just need something to make the turn downward easier.

The entry angle to the winch is not perfect , but it's ok. I cut a couple of pads but haven't taken the time/effort to install them. It's rare that there's an issue so the project is not high on my list.

Tim M
�Perfect Match II�
2003 C350 #35
Cruising FL
PO "Wine Down"
2000 C250 WK #453
PO "Perfect Match"
1983 C25 SR/SK #3932
Lake Belton
Belton, TX

HappyNow
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
99 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2017 : 21:53:26

Thanks Tim. I have a 130 so I will add a few feet for when the sail goes across when tacking.

Michael Levin
Sailin' on Sunshine
C250 #402 WK
Lake Tahoe

kjk
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
91 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2017 : 06:11:29

WM has the twofer sale on now.

Kevin J. Kiely
Rockport, MA
1999WK
Hull # 407

HappyNow
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
99 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2017 : 18:18:16

Thanks for the heads up. It looks like it's only the electric winches are on the two for one sale.

Michael Levin
Sailin' on Sunshine
C250 #402 WK
Lake Tahoe

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2017 : 08:13:18

About mounting the winches over the coamings. Serious backing plates are needed as the fiberglass in this area is no thicker than anywhere else on the gunwales, and maybe a little thinner. Take a good look up inside the coamings and probe everything, since the jib sheets will put a huge load on the mounting bolts.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Krusty Krab
Deckhand

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12 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2017 : 18:24:23

Hi! I don't know if this can help someone, but here is my solution anyway. I was looking for an easy fix to occasionaly sail singlehand with both sails without drilling any holes. After trying a few things, I ended up tying blocks with cam cleats to the railing under each seat. Sheets bypass winches and go to the blocks. I can easily setup everything in 5 minutes and operate sheets from the wheel. At 15 knots like this, it was really easy to lock the sheets tight with the right timing when tacking. If needed, I was always able to steer upwind, release tension and trim the jib. I had very pleasant rides just like this, with a 150$ setup!

HappyNow
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
99 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2017 : 15:04:13

Not sure what you mean by tying blocks with cam cleats under each seat. Do you mean to the vertical supports for the princess seats?

Michael Levin
Sailin' on Sunshine
C250 #402 WK
Lake Tahoe

Krusty Krab
Deckhand

Members Avatar

12 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2017 : 05:59:17

Yes. Right under the stanchions for the pelican hook of the lifelines. It's at an arm's length from the wheel.

HappyNow
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
99 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2017 : 11:17:02

One more question on this topic. Boat is in storage for the winter and WM has 50% off sale on bulk rope tomorrow. Does anyone know the jib sheet diameter? I'm guessing 5/8 but not sure. Thanks.

Michael Levin
Sailin' on Sunshine
C250 #402 WK
Lake Tahoe

bushav
Deckhand

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USA
20 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2017 : 14:48:22

quote:
Originally posted by bushav

There�s a great sizing chart in the owners manual. 3/8 is the correct size I believe. I know it�s not 5/8. Your thinking of halyards which are 5/16. Get enough for a continuous run for both sheets in one length.

Lane

Lane

HappyNow
1st Mate

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USA
99 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2017 : 14:58:49

Thanks Lane. I found some manuals online, and on Catalina Direct . They both say 3/8.

Michael Levin
Sailin' on Sunshine
C250 #402 WK
Lake Tahoe

HappyNow
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
99 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2018 : 17:09:54

Ok, purchased a second set of winches from WM last week on the twofer sale to mount over the coaming boxes. Now I have an installation question. I will need a block to make the turn for the jib sheet at the base of the stanchion at the forward end of the cockpit. (See Tim's pics of how he did this on Wine Down.). All of the stanchion mounted blocks I have seen are for furling leads and do not have a very high rating in terms of pounds of pressure they will withstand. I worry about them breaking under load. I think I need a 60 mm block rated for higher strength. But those do not have an attachment for a stanchion. Harken makes a stanchion mount accessory (Harken h061) but describes it for furling leads also, and the block attaches to it. It looks sturdy enough but is only rated to 350 pounds. They also make padeyes that would bolt to the deck and have a max working load of 3800 pounds. Does anyone know whether the stanchion is really strong enough to withstand the load of the jib line (?1500 pounds or more?) and is there an stanchion mounted block or pad eye strong enough for this? Or is there a consensus to mount to the deck/coaming?

Michael Levin
Sailin' on Sunshine
C250 #402 WK
Lake Tahoe

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
833 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2018 : 17:54:10

Michael,

The forward cockpit stanchion is the strongest because of the two deck mountings.
If you are going to mount a block to the stanchion, then the higher the block the stronger the lateral would be, so mount things as low as possible.

Garhauer is the OEM supplier for Catalina.
Here's a link to their catalog.
Their products are good, their website not so much.

You might consider their SB-3 or SB-25 Stanchion Block.
They don't list the block capacity, so you will need to contact them directly.

Garhauer Marine - Catalog
https://garhauermarine.com/catalog.cfm

Stanchion Blocks
https://garhauermarine.com/catalog_process.cfm?cid=57

Russ Johnson
2005 C250WB Hull 793

TEM58
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2018 : 19:48:50

I gave some thought to the load ratings as well. I realized that most of the load is absorbed by the car because of the angle of the sheet, and by the same token if you look at the angle of the sheet through the stanchion block there�s not a tremendous load being transferred there. If it was 90 degrees or more I might have used a larger block. Admittedly I don�t sail this boat in big winds, but I�ve never seen anything to be concerned about the block being undersized.

The stanchion is quite sufficient for this application, especially since as Russ points out the block will be very near the deck.

As far as the actual mounting of the winches goes, I used 1.25� washers and they�ve been quite sufficient as backing. Nothing wrong with going bigger though. I also mentioned in my mounting post that I nearly got one of the winches too far forward on the coaming and couldn�t get the forward-most bolt through. I measured carefully, checked and rechecked the first winch placement and it was perfect. The second winch I just matched the placement to the first. Turns out on my boat at least the insides of the boxes are not identical.

You won�t regret adding the winches. I single hand most of the time and the winches are great. Adding those and a tiller clutch are the best things I�ve done to the boat.

Tim M
�Perfect Match II�
2003 C350 #35
Cruising FL
PO "Wine Down"
2000 C250 WK #453
PO "Perfect Match"
1983 C25 SR/SK #3932
Lake Belton
Belton, TX

HappyNow
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
99 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2018 : 09:23:50

Thanks Tim and Russ. I emailed Garhauer to ask about their load ratings and will post that here if I get a response. Do you remember the brand or model of blocks you used? So far I'm thinking of going with Lewmar HTX 60 mm (depending on what Garhauer says) and maybe using their stanchion mount as I haven't found anything more substantial yet. I'm looking forward to the new winches and keep referring back to your posting and great pics from your installation, it's really helpful.

Michael Levin
Sailin' on Sunshine
C250 #402 WK
Lake Tahoe

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
833 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2018 : 13:52:58

Here's a link to Tim's post with pictures
New winches and first solo sail
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=29771

Russ Johnson
2005 C250WB Hull 793

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2269 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2018 : 14:52:05

quote:
Originally posted by Russ.Johnson

Here's a link to Tim's post with pictures
New winches and first solo sail
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=29771

If Happy's configuration is anything like the one you linked, the tension on the block will be less than the tension on the jib sheet. Just like plucking a guitar string takes much less force than the tension in the guitar string.

Off the top of my head, I think that the tension on the block would be:

Tblock = 2 * Tsheet * cos(�/2)

where #� is the angle between the two ends of the sheet. If the sheet is straight with no turn (�=180), Tblock is zero, if the sheet makes a 180 back in the opposite direction (�=0), then Tblock = 2*Tsheet. The picture shows an angle of about 140 (rough guess), giving Tblock = 0.68*Tsheet .

Do our own calculations - this is a rough guess.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Edited by - TakeFive on 03/23/2018 14:56:01

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