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Heartbeat
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts
Response Posted - 07/18/2017 :  10:11:29  Show Profile
Interesting question, and I am trying to remember at what age we started taking the kids on the boat. I am thinking it was a bit older - probably age 2 1/2. I know I have a picture of my son on the helm at 3 1/2. When he was 7 we got stuck out on a race when some strong stuff blew through at over 35 knots. That was a rough day for even the most seasoned old salt.

On the other hand, in a life jacket and baby carrier an infant should be fine. We use to have one of those front carry things, and as long as adult and child are jacketed, it should be safe. We might have done that once or twice. I'll ask SWMBO of she remembers.

I have extremely strict rules for kids on boats and that is life jackets. Whenever you are out of the car at the marina, the jacket must be worn. You get on the dock without a jacket and a tongue lashing is in order. You can take the jacket off down below, but that is it. The jacket must be sized for you and all straps must be tied. I really prefer the jackets with the big head pillow and a lifting strap for younger kids, and the ski-type jackets with 4 straps for the older ones.

In recent years (but not this year, we sold Heartbeat *wipes a tear away*) my daughter's swimming was string enough that we would anchor and swim off the boat in Lake St. Claire. My rule there was to have a bumper hanging off the stern in case you got tired. (I used it a bit myself.) Once she was a strong enough swimmer to swim around the boat twice without stopping, the jacket could come of while anchored. Lake St. Claire has about 3/4 knots of current, so that first leg from the stern to the bow was equivalent of 75 or 100 feet. As I recall, she was able to do that at age 11. She has always been a string swimmer. My son 10 isn't there yet. If we buy that 30 (or 40!) we have been dreaming of, the swim will be longer!

-Matt
former Captain of Heartbeat
Catalina 25 Tall
#4816
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MrKawfey
Navigator

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USA
124 Posts
Response Posted - 07/18/2017 :  17:42:39  Show Profile
A few years ago my wife insisted that I install netting on the boat if we were going to take the kids. I posted a new topic here asking about how to accomplish this considering we don't have a real toerail on the c25. Unfortunately I didn't get any useful feedback and I still have not heard directly from anyone who actually did this.

I purchased the netting and a really long length of white load rated nylon webbing. The webbing was snaked through the stantion bases and around the pulpit. At the rear i fed it into a ratchet strap ratchet and tensioned it. The next step was to run the netting around the boat and weave a line through each diamond and around either the lifeline or the toerail webbing.

I tend to stick with projects to a fault, going way past the point I should give up. But this one had me licked. It was so difficult to get the netting stretched and tight and the line fed through.

In the end the kids stayed off the boat until this summer and I have 60 feet of netting if anyone wants to buy it.

I think the idea would have worked if I had 2 extra helpers and had a different fiddle for weaving.

Hopefully someone else has had better luck with this and could help out. The kids are 6 and 3 this summer and it would be more relaxing on gusty days if we had the netting.
Chris
Sacandaga Lake, NY
1984 C25 SRSK
"Les's Moor"
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ryank020
1st Mate

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53 Posts
Response Posted - 07/18/2017 :  18:19:19  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by GaryB



My question is, what is it you expect to gain by having a child this small on board? More than likely the child is not going to enjoy it and for sure will not remember it long term. By the time the weather cools you may WANT to have a day on the boat with your wife alone so you can have a break from being a parent 24 hours a day. :)

Is it REALLY that important to get a child a few months old out on the water? Is it WORTH the risk? No one wants to see something bad happen but what if it does? Are you going to be able to live with the fact that YOU made the decision to take this small helpless child out at such a young age and now something bad happened that cannot be reversed no matter what? How will it feel every night when you lay down to go to sleep knowing you made that decision?


I guess it is that feeling of having some family time, especially on the days when we can really take it easy. I'm sure the in-laws will be available to babysit and I'm sure that I will be willing to let her go to them for a while in most cases! I was really looking for advice for the instances we do take her out.
1984 Cat 25 FK/TR #4687
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ryank020
1st Mate

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53 Posts
Response Posted - 07/18/2017 :  18:21:43  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Heartbeat

Interesting question, and I am trying to remember at what age we started taking the kids on the boat. I am thinking it was a bit older - probably age 2 1/2. I know I have a picture of my son on the helm at 3 1/2. When he was 7 we got stuck out on a race when some strong stuff blew through at over 35 knots. That was a rough day for even the most seasoned old salt.

On the other hand, in a life jacket and baby carrier an infant should be fine. We use to have one of those front carry things, and as long as adult and child are jacketed, it should be safe. We might have done that once or twice. I'll ask SWMBO of she remembers.

I have extremely strict rules for kids on boats and that is life jackets. Whenever you are out of the car at the marina, the jacket must be worn. You get on the dock without a jacket and a tongue lashing is in order. You can take the jacket off down below, but that is it. The jacket must be sized for you and all straps must be tied. I really prefer the jackets with the big head pillow and a lifting strap for younger kids, and the ski-type jackets with 4 straps for the older ones.

In recent years (but not this year, we sold Heartbeat *wipes a tear away*) my daughter's swimming was string enough that we would anchor and swim off the boat in Lake St. Claire. My rule there was to have a bumper hanging off the stern in case you got tired. (I used it a bit myself.) Once she was a strong enough swimmer to swim around the boat twice without stopping, the jacket could come of while anchored. Lake St. Claire has about 3/4 knots of current, so that first leg from the stern to the bow was equivalent of 75 or 100 feet. As I recall, she was able to do that at age 11. She has always been a string swimmer. My son 10 isn't there yet. If we buy that 30 (or 40!) we have been dreaming of, the swim will be longer!

-Matt



I was going to institute a similar PFD rule. Some people down the dock from me sail with their grandchildren (all under 7 or so) about every weekend. They have PFDs that are in the car, the kids wear the PFDs from the car to the boat, then change into their "boat" PFDs down below. Their logic is they always have PFDs for travel between car and boat and have dry PFDs available after the kids go for a swim.
1984 Cat 25 FK/TR #4687
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 07/18/2017 :  21:11:45  Show Profile
Ryank... Are those people's grandchildren swimming in the lake around the marina? Does your dock have shore power and/or boats with generators or high-output engine alternators? If so, PLEASE either beseech them not to let their kids (or anyone) do that, or get the marina management to enforce a "No Swimming" rule (many states and probably most insurance companies require it of fresh water marinas) in the lake anywhere near the docks. Every year, children (and sometimes adults and pets) die from going into the water around docks in marinas in fresh water. Their muscles are paralyzed, and they mysteriously drown. Life jackets might help, but not necessarily the person who jumps in to save them.

Early on, this year became no exception.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts
Response Posted - 07/19/2017 :  09:02:56  Show Profile  Visit OLarryR's Homepage
The concern has to do with stray electricity/current from dockside shore power.
Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts
Response Posted - 07/19/2017 :  09:37:20  Show Profile
Discussing accidents and how to try to prevent them by taking precautions this 12yr old died yesterday here in an unexpected freak accident while taking a sailing lesson. Even when doing the right thing, Tragedy strikes.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-zpIIgkTg0
Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 07/19/2017 :  11:20:48  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by OLarryR

The concern has to do with stray electricity/current from dockside shore power.
...or on-board generators that often run where shore power is not available.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts
Response Posted - 07/19/2017 :  11:44:23  Show Profile
I've heard that GFIs can prevent such incidents, but they weren't required when most of the older installations were made, and are therefore "grandfathered." Perhaps slip renters could organize and collectively demand their marina operator install them.
Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore
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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts
Response Posted - 07/19/2017 :  16:08:24  Show Profile
Some of the fondest memories of my life are of sailing/cruising with my kids. I would suggest getting a book about it, such as Voyaging With Kids - A Guide to Family Life Afloat. You will get many/much ideas/inspiration from this source, some of which you can see here.


RichardG 81 FK/SR #2657
Terminal Island, CA
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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts
Response Posted - 07/19/2017 :  16:10:25  Show Profile
I remember one piece of advice on which life jacket to use for an infant. It said try on different brands in the store, and choose the one in which the infant screams the least. Anyway, the Mustang brand was the one we got.


RichardG 81 FK/SR #2657
Terminal Island, CA
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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts
Response Posted - 07/19/2017 :  16:13:27  Show Profile
My oldest is getting ready to go off to college this summer. It felt good looking back at these old pics.


RichardG 81 FK/SR #2657
Terminal Island, CA
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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts
Response Posted - 07/19/2017 :  16:24:14  Show Profile
I probably still have that harness around somewhere. I will let it go for cheap. The harness is good when they are young, because temperature control is crucial, and the life jackets can cause overheating. A DC fan is good too.


RichardG 81 FK/SR #2657
Terminal Island, CA
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ryank020
1st Mate

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53 Posts
Response Posted - 07/19/2017 :  17:24:58  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

Ryank... Are those people's grandchildren swimming in the lake around the marina? Does your dock have shore power and/or boats with generators or high-output engine alternators? If so, PLEASE either beseech them not to let their kids (or anyone) do that, or get the marina management to enforce a "No Swimming" rule (many states and probably most insurance companies require it of fresh water marinas) in the lake anywhere near the docks. Every year, children (and sometimes adults and pets) die from going into the water around docks in marinas in fresh water. Their muscles are paralyzed, and they mysteriously drown. Life jackets might help, but not necessarily the person who jumps in to save them.

Early on, this year became no exception.


No shore power at the marina where we are at, so stray currents have never been a huge concern. There is an enforced no-swim policy at the docks area anyhow. Our sailing club maintains two swim/mooring areas (one in a cove, the other near shore in a no-wake area) which is the only area swimming is permitted. Usually the cove is the go-to for swimming/SUPs, etc.
1984 Cat 25 FK/TR #4687
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ryank020
1st Mate

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53 Posts
Response Posted - 07/19/2017 :  17:26:31  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by RichardG

I probably still have that harness around somewhere. I will let it go for cheap. The harness is good when they are young, because temperature control is crucial, and the life jackets can cause overheating. A DC fan is good too.


Those are great pictures! That is exactly why I want to sail with my child....to have those memories. I like the baby in a tub for down below, perhaps I could employ that idea.

If the harness is in good shape, I may be interested. Let me know, could use it in the next year or two.
1984 Cat 25 FK/TR #4687
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AUAE
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts
Response Posted - 07/19/2017 :  20:22:54  Show Profile
I’ve enjoyed reading the forum posts for quite a while, and I guess now is a good time for me to finally contribute something…

I bought my Catalina 25 in January but have not sailed yet (been a busy year), so I can’t speak to children on C25 specifically. Our previous boat was an O’Day 22, and we started taking our son sailing when he was about 6 months old and big enough for a life vest. Typically my wife would hold him in the cockpit until he got tired of the life vest, then she would sit with him in the cabin while he played there. At first our trips were limited because he wouldn’t take a nap on a berth cushion, so I installed his car seat to give him a familiar place to nap. It worked pretty well for naps, and it was also good to have somewhere to keep him contained so my wife could help lower sails, etc. We used a convertible car seat – the type that can be installed either forward- or rear-facing in a car – so it had seatbelt channels on both the front and back where I could run 2 tie-down straps to 2 pairs of pad-eyes that I installed under the port berth cushion. We didn’t keep him in the car seat unless he was napping or needed to be temporarily unsupervised. We also used a 12V fan to help keep him cool.

My experience has been that a baby on a boat (6-18 months old in my case) pretty much requires the full attention of one adult, so if there are just 2 adults someone will need to sail singlehanded. When friends and family sailed with us, sailing with the baby was obviously easier. Also you’ll need to bring toys, etc. to keep the baby entertained. And you have to start heading back well before the baby decides he is done with sailing for the day. Motoring a couple of miles to the marina with a screaming baby will make you aware of how slow hull speed really is. But I enjoyed having my son sail with us, and he seemed to have fun for the most part. I’m looking forward to getting him out on our C25, hopefully in a few months.

I would not recommend the wearable baby carrier on deck. At least in the carrier that we have (one of the Ergo Baby models), the baby would not be able to wear a life vest while in the carrier, so that would not be legal. Also the adult wouldn’t be able to properly wear a life vest if needed. It’s hard enough just walking around the house wearing a baby carrier, so someone trying to maneuver around a boat wearing a baby would have a greater risk of losing their balance and falling. It gets pretty hot wearing the baby carrier too.

As a first step, I’d recommend just bringing your baby in a life vest and bringing a grandparent or two to help. See how your baby tolerates the sun/motion/life vest/outboard noise/etc., and decide what you want to improve for next time.
Kav Eldredge
1990 TR/WK #6001 "Ocean Liner"
Birmingham, AL
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AUAE
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts
Response Posted - 07/19/2017 :  21:45:23  Show Profile
Here is a picture of my car seat installation on the O'Day 22. I haven't studied about how to do a similar install on the C25, but if anything it should be easier due to the much larger cabin.

Another thing I've thought about is setting up and anchoring a Pack-n-play (portable crib for those not up to speed on baby equipment) in the cabin floor. I measured today, and the crib that we have will fit. It would accomplish the same thing as fencing off the V berth, but also keep the baby closer to the cockpit. Our son will have outgrown the crib by the time we're sailing again, but now we have a daughter that we'll have to put somewhere.
Kav Eldredge
1990 TR/WK #6001 "Ocean Liner"
Birmingham, AL
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 07/20/2017 :  07:01:47  Show Profile
Welcome Kavan, and congratulations on the 1990--a rare gem! Time to jump into our pool--the water's great!
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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MrKawfey
Navigator

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USA
124 Posts
Response Posted - 07/20/2017 :  10:36:14  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

Time to jump into our pool--the water's great!


Only if the pool doesn't have shore power
Chris
Sacandaga Lake, NY
1984 C25 SRSK
"Les's Moor"
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sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts
Response Posted - 07/20/2017 :  19:21:35  Show Profile
Take your kids, early and often!

I'm not going to add to the lectures about safety. You're the father and the captain - so you know you're responsible, and you can feel it too. So bring and install whatever safety gear you need to feel comfortable. (Most folks on here would probably think my safety gear is overkill, but it makes me feel more comfortable with all of the kids on board.)


Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/
Edited by - sethp001 on 07/20/2017 19:22:58
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ryank020
1st Mate

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53 Posts
Response Posted - 07/23/2017 :  15:16:21  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by AUAE

Here is a picture of my car seat installation on the O'Day 22. I haven't studied about how to do a similar install on the C25, but if anything it should be easier due to the much larger cabin.

Another thing I've thought about is setting up and anchoring a Pack-n-play (portable crib for those not up to speed on baby equipment) in the cabin floor. I measured today, and the crib that we have will fit. It would accomplish the same thing as fencing off the V berth, but also keep the baby closer to the cockpit. Our son will have outgrown the crib by the time we're sailing again, but now we have a daughter that we'll have to put somewhere.




This is a great idea (the pad-eyes to tie down the car seat)! Maybe I'll take a look at how I can set that up next time I am at the boat.
1984 Cat 25 FK/TR #4687
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JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1519 Posts
Response Posted - 07/24/2017 :  09:08:38  Show Profile
It's really nice seeing kids having fun on boats!
JohnP
1978 C25 SR/FK "Gypsy"
Mill Creek off the Magothy River, Chesapeake Bay
Port Captain, northern Chesapeake Bay
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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts
Response Posted - 07/24/2017 :  11:23:33  Show Profile
We used a small "car crib" from the day before everyone was such a scaredy cat. A simple crib with no legs, put it on the floor in high wind and the vberth in light wind. Raised two kids on the boat that way. Relax, sail.
Frank Hopper
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