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Bilge Pump Project

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bjoye
Navigator

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USA
105 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/16/2017 : 10:09:45

When we first acquired the boat, the manual bilge pump worked, but was not connected.The initial plans were for leaving the manual pump in place and reinstall a hose into the keel bilge area. In addition, we would install an electric pump wth separate plumbing also to the keel bilge area. I purchased a Rule 1500 which uses a 1 1/8� hose.

The problem with this plan is, at least for the 89� models, the gap between the cabin sole and the hull narrows to the point it is difficult to install one small hose through, and no room for 2 hoses. At most I could get a 3/4� hose, or a very flexible 1� hose through the gap with much difficulty. It is my understanding while building the boat, Catalina installed the hose, then laid the cabin sole in place. Over time, someone had removed the old hose and was unable to replace it.

Plan B: Following the advice of Maine Sail over at SailboatOwners, I would install 2 electric pumps, one for nuisance water in the keel bilge and one (the official OH S**T pump) higher in elevation next to the battery box. The nuisance pump would have check valves to prevent it from emptying back into the bilge after the pump turned off. The OH S**T pump is vented with no check values.

I saw on this forum where another member connected his Rule pump to the existing manual pump hose in the keel bilge. You could use either the electric pump or the manual pump using the same plumbing. The problem I had is that the Rule electric pumps uses either 3/4� or 1 1/8� hoses and the Whale manual pump uses 1� hose.

Then a few months ago, Rule announced the availability of the Rule 1100, which comes with both a 1� and 1 1/8� adapter. Furthermore it contains a check valve right at the pump to prevent the back wash when the pump turns off.

One other note: I also followed the advice of Maine Sail on bilge pump switches. I purchased an Ultra Pump Switch Jr for the OH S**T pump (with 1 1/4� on/off differential) and an Ultra Pump Switch Mini for the nuisance pump (with 3/4� on/off differential). These switches are expensive, but they will not fail to activate or to turn off when required. Still cheaper than when a cheap switch sticks and drains the batteries or fails to activate and the boat sinks.

Ok, cleaned and painted the keel bilge and installed the two pumps. Both pumps work as advertised. The Rule 1100 keel bilge pump does an ok job in removing the nuisance water, but not very fast as it has 3 check valves to push through and some height to overcome. I would not want to count on this as my only pump. The Rule 1500 works great, like a fire hose, with just the vent to overcome.

Both electric pump switches are mounted behind the sink in the galley.

"Frayed Knot" 1989 C-25 WK/SR #5878

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2017 : 10:41:07

Great analysis and presentation on bilge pumps.

I have an unmounted pump with 15ft of hose on it, but keep it for a time if and when a problem occurs while I'm onboard. I intentionally did not install it for a few reasons:

1. I'm not sure where a problem will occur - could be in my bilge beneath the dinette seats (which connects to the galley area bilge, dumpster and quarterberth area) versus the Vee berth bilge area. 80-20 would say install it in the main area, but what if?

2. I'd have to cut a new through-hull or at least a through-transom hole. Not too keen on this.

3. With a long hose, I can stick it through the forward hatch, the head portlights or the companionway and I'm pumping water.

I rigged it with 20 feet of #10 wire with a pair of alligator clips to directly to the battery.

Maybe I should buy two pumps and install one in each area.

BTW: I like your cupboard behind the galley and the neat layout.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Drews Cruise
1st Mate

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39 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2017 : 11:28:50

Is the transom area near the gudgeons a good place to install a pump? There's a little wood access panel and it seems optimal.

Drew C. | 1979 Catalina 25 SK TR #1420
http://bit.ly/Click_Here_For_My_Catalina_25_Videos

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2017 : 12:01:25

I am so sorry you need a bilge pump. C 25s are dry boats.

Frank Hopper

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2017 : 20:34:44

quote:
Originally posted by pastmember

I am so sorry you need a bilge pump. C 25s are dry boats.

There's no good reason to beat up the OP.

While you may have had the time and money to maintain your boat in Bristol condition, not every sailor does. C25s are not inherently any dryer than any other old boat with a bunch of deck hardware, hatches, port-lights, and through-hulls.

It would be better to commend the sailor for installing a bigger bilge pump for safety. Or commend him for all of the maintenance he's done, and improvements he's made to his boat.

Edited by - sethp001 on 09/21/2017 21:09:58

Voyager
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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2017 : 17:57:26

I'll add that Passage is generally dry, however, if we get a few inches of rainfall, inevitably some water leaks in through the the portlights and wets the bilge, and some comes into the head area sole from who knows where!?!?
When I say "wets the bilge, I mean I might get 1/4" of standing water that I sponge out into a bucket. It might total a quart during a monsoon rain.
I keep my bilge pump at the ready for those OH S**T times when a through hull fails, I bottom out my hull on granite or green water comes over the gunwales or transom. Thanks to good King Nepture (or the deity of your choice), this has never happened on Passage during my tenure.
Some boats are wetter than others for a variety of reasons (climate, swing keel problems, aging seals). We play the hand we're dealt and make the best of it given spare time and resources.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2017 : 13:58:51

I agree that the boat is dry -- from below -- but the rain water seems to have more than a few opportunities to make it to the bilge. Over the years I have thought about an automatic (electric) pump and should rebuild/replace my manual one. My issues are that the hose, no matter size or shape, will still leave enough in the bilge to require a sponge to finish the job, which is about the same for me as just using a sponge for the entire job under my "normal" conditions. However, the reason for a bilge pump is when conditions are anything but "normal". Hence, this thread is an excellent one for discussing the various challenges related to the pump -- and has me thinking again about taking a course of action.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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1889 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2017 : 23:37:32

The bilge pump system I installed closely follows Don Casey's suggestions.

1.) A small automatic electric pump selected for its ability to pump down to a shallow residue. I think of this as the 'slurper' pump. This type turns on with a low float, and then keeps going until it determines that it's pumping air. I even went with a smaller diameter hose to reduce drain back volume. Original advertised capacity was around 500 gph. If it can pump a 100 gph, that's plenty. I shoved it as far fwd as it would fit under the companionway ladder.

2.) A large electric pump and separate float switch selected for its ability to move a lot of water. I refer to this as a damage control pump. I think it's rated around 3,700 gph with 1-1/2" smooth bore hose. The pump and switch are installed a few inches above the level of the 'slurper' pump, under the galley area just to port of swing keel cable. I've yet to have enough water in the bilge to activate the damage control pump, even flushing the cabin with a garden hose. I imagine it looking like a fire hydrant or jet drive.

3.) I rebuilt or replaced the original manual bilge pump, including new hoses and a strum box pickup under the cabin sole near the stbd swing keel pivot.

Each pump discharges through a separate thru-hull high in the transom well above the heeled waterline.

Each electric pump is connected to a separate ON/OFF/AUTO switch with green indicator lights for enabled and red for running. (An audible alarm on the big pump, loud enough to wake the dead but with a mute switch, seems like a good idea, but I haven't gotten around to adding it.) Each has its own circuit breaker wired directly to a separate group 27 flooded cell house battery (bypassing the OFF/1/BOTH/2 switch and main 12V circuit breaker.) Each house battery is connected to a separate solar panel. (Group 24 cranking battery is charged directly from engine alternator.) All 3 batteries are also connected to a 3-bank shore power charger, and can be paralleled with ON/OFF/AUTO battery combiner relays (50A continuous, 150A cranking surge, as I recall).

I'm not saying this is the dewatering system every Catalina 25 needs, just throwing it out as food for thought.

-- Leon Sisson {a.k.a. Mr. Overkill}

� Leon Sisson

Edited by - Leon Sisson on 10/01/2017 23:38:14

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.