Association Forum - Pedestal Wheel Steering Help Needed

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Pedestal Wheel Steering Help Needed

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

Kingsfold
Deckhand

Member Avatar

USA
11 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/18/2017 : 19:07:44

We recently purchased a 1981 Catalina 25, swing keel, standard rig. It came with a Yacht Specialties Y600-001 Mini Steerer pedestal steering.

It would appear that the push rod controlling the rudder was installed in the wrong position on the transom so that the wheel can be turned to allow plenty of port helm but less than 10 degrees of starboard helm. I have spoken with Catalina Direct tech support who suggested I speak with Edson. They were very helpful and were the ones who informed me, after I emailed them photos, this was a Yacht Specialties Pedestal Steering System and thankfully they were able to email a scanned image of the page for the item from and old catalog. I have searched the internet for installation instructions and have come up empty.

I am new to this forum and am hoping someone might have this same pedestal steering system and either a copy of the installation guide or could let me know how far from the centerline the push rod mounting bracket is on their boat.

Cheers,
David

.

"I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by" Sea Fever

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
833 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2017 : 20:13:26

David,

I sent you an email earlier today.
If you send me your photos, I can post them here.

Thanks, Russ Johnson

Russ Johnson
2005 C250WB Hull 793

DavidBuoy
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2017 : 04:49:53

You could mock the bracket up at different locations on the rudder with like tape or something then turn the wheel to find full-lock.

I could be wrong, but that kit was probably "universal" and installed special to the boat with the installer figuring it out as they go. The vast majority of C25s do not have wheel steering but the 1% who do would probably be on this forum so you're at the right place.

If you were able to measure all of the geometry of your setup I could put it into CAD to try and find some working angles and locations.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2017 : 06:22:52

You could count how many turns of the wheel from lock to lock then set the wheel half way. Center the rudder then hold the mount against the transom. Hold the mount in that spot and turn the wheel lock to lock to check it's operation and if it's satisfactory then mount it

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Kingsfold
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
11 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2017 : 08:05:44

Thank you all for quick and kind responses. I believe I will start with finding the center of the steering, lock the wheel, set the rudder at midships and then figure out where the bracket should be. It might require a little bit of measuring but I believe it can be done. I appreciate the feedback. I'll keep y'all posted. I would put pictures but as I am new to the forum, I haven't quite figured that out yet. Cheers, David

"I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by" Sea Fever

Edited by - Kingsfold on 04/19/2017 08:06:14

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
833 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2017 : 09:29:20

Photos sent from David

Russ Johnson
2005 C250WB Hull 793

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2017 : 09:37:17

Throw it away and add $1000 to the value of your boat.

Frank Hopper

Kingsfold
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
11 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2017 : 11:19:08

I must confess the thought of giving it the float test had crossed my mind and I would even gain a nice little cockpit ventilation hole for the berth below

"I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by" Sea Fever

DavidBuoy
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2017 : 11:52:33

quote:
Originally posted by Kingsfold

I must confess the thought of giving it the float test had crossed my mind and I would even gain a nice little cockpit ventilation hole for the berth below

Then you can put a recessed cockpit table socket where the wheel used to be. Lemonade out of lemons.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

Kingsfold
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
11 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2017 : 12:03:33

One can never go wrong with a food and beverage stand in the cockpit. I like it!!!

"I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by" Sea Fever

dasreboot
Admiral

Members Avatar

803 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2017 : 12:36:33

so the shaft pulling gives your starboard rudder. this cant be a matter of the exit placement. there must be a cable adjustment somewhere. or an adjustment for the center. it looks like you have plenty of pull. it must be traveling all the way to the end of the worm gear ( i assume this is what it uses) on starboard. post a pic of what you have below the cockpit, and maybe inside the pedestal.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

Edited by - dasreboot on 04/19/2017 12:58:15

Kingsfold
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
11 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2017 : 14:02:45

Tried making adjustments but not enough to make a difference. It is a sealed system, there is a chain that controls the cable, which is not unlike a bicycle brake cable, there is a slight adjustment that can be made to the end where the bracket exits the stern by not enough to make a big enough correction. The last owner had it for a couple of years but never sailed it, my guess is that he did the install and never had the chance to figure out it wasn't quite right. When the helm is hard over to port we are getting about 70 degrees of rudder, and when it is hard over to starboard we getting less than 10 degrees of rudder. We have full range just unbalanced.

quote:
Originally posted by dasreboot

so the shaft pulling gives your starboard rudder. this cant be a matter of the exit placement. there must be a cable adjustment somewhere. or an adjustment for the center. it looks like you have plenty of pull. it must be traveling all the way to the end of the worm gear ( i assume this is what it uses) on starboard. post a pic of what you have below the cockpit, and maybe inside the pedestal.

"I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by" Sea Fever

dasreboot
Admiral

Members Avatar

803 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2017 : 17:48:19

Looking at this pic, it looks like the exit is in the correct place.

https://books.google.com/books?id=EZ00_GxsP_QC&pg=RA1-PA29&lpg=RA1-PA29&dq=mini steerer&source=bl&ots=HQXPY4bsZO&sig=3mCR6SJzYfHmgiUSyGPvkJrFMOc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLxd6g57HTAhXqylQKHSooCjgQ6AEIRzAM#v=onepage&q=mini%20steerer&f=false

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2017 : 18:13:38

I think you will find out that with the wheel centered the rudder will be angled to port as if the boat was turning to port.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Kingsfold
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
11 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2017 : 20:03:28

Thanks for posting this. It does indeed look like its in about the right spot. Suddenly the mystery deepens.

quote:
Originally posted by dasreboot

Looking at this pic, it looks like the exit is in the correct place.

https://books.google.com/books?id=EZ00_GxsP_QC&pg=RA1-PA29&lpg=RA1-PA29&dq=mini steerer&source=bl&ots=HQXPY4bsZO&sig=3mCR6SJzYfHmgiUSyGPvkJrFMOc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLxd6g57HTAhXqylQKHSooCjgQ6AEIRzAM#v=onepage&q=mini%20steerer&f=false

"I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by" Sea Fever

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2017 : 21:44:01

Some boats have cockpits that are amenable to wheels, and are big enough that a wheel is easier to use than a tiller... I never felt either was the case with the C-25. But we have to suppose you bought this particular boat because you felt otherwise. Are you still convinced? It's a really nice boat to sail with a tiller, the tiller can be lifted out of the way to open up the cockpit when not under way, and all of these mechanics can be eliminated. It's a boat, not a ship.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

SKS
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2017 : 08:29:01

It looks like you adjust the length of the shaft by twisting it on a threaded rod ?
Is that correct ??
If that's the case merely center the helm and then adjust the length of the rod until the rudder is centered.
Am I missing something ?
I also agree with those who said a wheel on a Catalina 25 is a suboptimal installation. The Catalina 25 does not have a "T" cockpit.
I usually sail alone, and the last thing I want to do is have to jump over the wheel and seats in the cockpit in order to adjust the sails.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong. As always, my free advice comes with a double your money back guarantee.

"Lady E" 1986 Catalina 25: Fin Keel, Standard Rig, Inboard M12 Diesel, Sail No. 5339
Sailing out of Norwalk Cove Marina, Connecticut

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2017 : 09:45:47

That rod is two different diameters. You have to look close in the photos. When the rod is retracted the outer larger section hits that lock nut on the transom fitting and acts like a stop. I don't think the rod length is adjustable by turning it. I think you would have visible threads showing if it could.Id like to see what it looks like on the interior, Maybe a clue there.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Kingsfold
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
11 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2017 : 14:59:22

Tried adjusting the rod thinking it might adjust like a turnbuckle but it does not. The smaller rod slides in and out of the larger one as the wheel turns. There is a slight adjustment that can be made where the rod connects through the bracket but it did not make much if any difference at all.

quote:
Originally posted by SKS

It looks like you adjust the length of the shaft by twisting it on a threaded rod ?
Is that correct ??
If that's the case merely center the helm and then adjust the length of the rod until the rudder is centered.
Am I missing something ?
I also agree with those who said a wheel on a Catalina 25 is a suboptimal installation. The Catalina 25 does not have a "T" cockpit.
I usually sail alone, and the last thing I want to do is have to jump over the wheel and seats in the cockpit in order to adjust the sails.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong. As always, my free advice comes with a double your money back guarantee.

"I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by" Sea Fever

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2017 : 15:43:40

To clarify this, The small rod does not move. It's the larger rod that slides in and out over the smaller rod. Is that right?

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2017 : 16:27:41

I'm thinking the cable or chain (what ever you called it) was either installed with the wheel not centered or it's slipped on whatever it's connected to.

Imagine a sprocket and chain setup and having the wheel slightly off center. When you install the center of the chain on the sprocket and spin the wheel it's going to go farther to one side than the other.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2017 : 17:27:20

I'm thinking the small rod has some means of clamping itself inside the boat and the rod has slipped farther outside the boat putting the rudder off center. Maybe someone put to much pressure on the wheel when turning to port driving the rod out if the clamp slipped. It might also be that nut on the transom fitting that locks the small rod in place.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Kingsfold
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
11 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2017 : 18:25:47

The large one is fixed and attached to the rudder, it moves over the smaller diameter rod.

quote:
Originally posted by islander

To clarify this, The small rod does not move. It's the larger rod that slides in and out over the smaller rod. Is that right?

"I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by" Sea Fever

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2017 : 20:24:52

With a tiller, center is straight, port is starboard, and starboard is port. What could be simpler?

(Having learned that at about age six, I could never figure out why it confuses people.)

Back to reality: What is the mechanism from the binnacle to the rod at the transom? (Cable is most common on smaller boats; chain on somewhat larger ones; hydraulic on the big guys...) It sounds to me like the adjustment might need to be made there.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2017 : 20:49:02

BTW, Todd: To prevent a long URL from stretching a whole thread horizontally, in your post:

1. Change Format Mode from Basic to Prompt.
2. Type some words that describe what you're linking to.
3. Highlight those words, click

and paste the URL into the box that appears.

The words will be highlighted in your post, and clicking on them will follow your link.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2017 : 07:02:17

At this point without more photos and info on exactly how the system works I think you need local help. I would suggest finding a good marine mechanic to locate the problem and fix it. With limited internet info and and it being an old system that I don't think any of us has experience with the best we can offer is wild guesses.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.