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Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/08/2017 : 19:34:33

I don't post much unless I have a question that bugs me more than the potential embarrassment I fear from posting. The admiral and I have owned our 86 SK for 3 years now and have only been able to sail her during the first year of ownership, since then she has been sitting patiently on her trailer. The only experience we have, other than sailing alone that first year, has been on two occasions aboard a friend's boat on Lake Michigan. We're getting a bit excited this year as we have done some upgrades in preparation for this summer.

When we purchased her we immediately rebedded everything. We cleaned and reoiled the interior teak and had her looking like new with the original green upholstery. With the water sealed out and the interior comfortable we sailed for the summer. Time and money kept us out of the water the following two years. Last fall we were determined that this year would be different so we set out to make sailing a priority in 2017.

It started with paying for a slip. We figured if we sunk money in a slip then we wouldn't let it go to waste. Once that was done we went a little crazy.... Swing keel hardware was first, followed by a CDI roller furler and mods to the head sail to accommodate the furler. Complete exterior teak stripping and refinishing with new eyebrow teak, new exterior LED lighting, a good bottom cleaning and fresh bottom paint rounded out 2016. 2017 started with a new main sail, fresh running rigging, some hardware for the shrouds, a new 4 spring motor mount and custom made sailpack from a friend is how far we've made it so far this year. Left on the list is a new 4 stroke engine, only because it seems impossible to find a used extra long shaft outboard. Still on the wish list is a Bimini.

I hope I didn't put anyone to sleep and it's a bit unlike me to talk about much of nothing but the urge hit me.

Here's to a great sailing season.....

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...

DavidCrosby
Navigator

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USA
229 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2017 : 20:27:00

I would like to suggest that you make a point of going sailing. Paying for the slip makes it easier, but just because you have paid for the slip does not make it happen. I hate to think of mentioning just how many boats sit in paid for slips that never, ever go out.

I personally drive 80 miles each way to get to my boat every single weekend from mid April through the first weekend in November. While I do look at the weather, I really do not put much faith in the forecast. I go regardless. If I were to only go with a good forecast, the weekends sailed would be minimal. But since I do make the trip to the boat regardless, I find that most days turn out better than expected. And if it really does turn out to be a bust and I did not get to sail, I still tend to have a fabulous weekend on the boat.

Jut sharing my two cents.

Let's go sailing!

David Crosby "Small World"
'02 C250 WK #614

Sailynn
Navigator

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USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2017 : 22:07:49

Good for you Kyle. And ditto to what David Crosby said. Get to your boat as often as possible even if you can't take her out of the slip. On big weather days you can always spend time doing projects, playing games or just exploring your marina, checking out other boats, and the surrounding areas. With proper planning and preparations it can be a good learning experience to push yourself a little bit out of your comfort zone. you will learn more about sailing, your boat and yourself.

Lynn Buchanan
1988 C25 SR/WK #5777
Sailynn
Nevada City, CA

Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2017 : 03:49:07

Getting to the marina isn't an issue with us as we're only about 10 minutes away. I think the biggest roadblock to us getting out the past 2 years was that I was offered a part-time job at the marina in exchange for a free slip. I discovered that it's awfully difficult to sail when your working - that was the time shortage. With an unreliable engine the first year the admiral was hesitant on sailing - that was the money issue so the boat never left the trailer.

One thing I forgot to add was that the marina is now under new ownership and prices have gone through the roof. One of those fees is raising the mast, I'm not comfortable paying nearly $200 to have my mast stepped so I was hoping to build something to do it ourselves. I saw plans on here once (I'll have to find them again) but when it came to actually applying that plan I was nervous that I completely understood it.

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2017 : 04:36:07

Well, you have already accomplished a lot of work on your boat and should reap the benefits this year especially since you are only 10 minutes away. A reliable outboard to me is a must. When I go out, the last thing I want on my mind is if I will have problems getting back. So...depending on the existing outboard reliability, best to make the decision right now to spring for the new outboard or else slug it out this whole season with the existing one. I like to clear out all major issues at end of the main season or in the winter, leaving only minor stuff to accomplish on those days I was not going to go sailing or do it piecemeal as time allows. Also, just when you want to buy an outboard, depending on where you are buying it, they may be backed up with other work and a local supplier will have some setup on the outboard before it is ready for pickup.

As far as stepping the mast and potentially building a support rig....my advice is to pay the $200 or perhaps find others that have done it and can do it for less but I would have that done this year since building a rig right now may hold up your start to the season. You can always work on the support rig later this year for using it next year. That's the way I would go. Me - I leave my boat in all year-round. I occasionally go sailing in the winter if temps are 40F or above and it is sunny. This past winter - The Potomac River did not freeze and it was overall a warm winter, so I was out every week or two. We have flow agitators in the water at my marina so that usually keeps the waterways and boats in the marina clear of major ice...and this year, there was no freeze-ups at all ! Those that take their masts down, those support rigs seem to do the job but you will probably still need assistance.

I have accomplished many tasks on my boat since 2005 and the only thing that has ever prevented me from either limiting my sailing or not going out at all has been the existing outboard when I first bought my boat. That was in Sep-Oct 2005. I slugged it out for the next couple of months but I had already made the decision to replace it after a local marina engine shop recommended it was better to buy a new one that sink an initial $400+ into the old one chasing an electrical issue that may not get resolved first time around. So, in December, I ordered a 2006 9.9HP Honda outboard - I figured...ordering in December, I should be able to pick it up right away. Turns out, of all things, the local marina was in the middle of fulfilling a $1M Homeland Security order for the Coast Guard - Inflatables with Honda outboards. They had to blow up each inflatable, prepare and test the outboards and give a test run on the water before they then shipped out each inflatable/outboards. They were able to get my outboard ready for me beginning of January. So...not a big deal. But just ordering and replacing an outboard can turn out to be not a few days proposition but a month.

Oh - I had another holdup to sailing but for many, they would not consider this a hold up since it was during the winter season. I had significant blisters on the bottom of my boat and I had been evaluating this situation for years during annual pressure washings Several years ago, I decided to have the blisters removed and waterproof epoxy the bottom. The plan was to have this done toward end of the main season ...SEP/Oct timeframe and get the boat back in the water.....Nov/Dec. Well, it did not happen quite like that. I sailed my boat (on schedule) down to the marina that was going to do the work, but they had delay after delay get in the way including 2-3 yard inspections by town. etc inspectors that made them clean up things and dismantle derelict boats, so they had to delay work on my boat. This actually was of some benefit since they had opened up many of the blisters and time is needed for those areas to drain. Actually, turned out that I had blisters on top of blisters thru the gel coat and beginning layers of laminate and so this turned out to be a major, major boat repair - Not filling blister areas with epoxy but relaminating 1-2 foot swaths over 1/3 of the hull bottom. (Photos on my website). Wind up was that this was the only season since 2005 that my boat was out of the water for the winter with boat launching early March (2012)!

Anyway, enjoy sailing this year !!

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 03/09/2017 05:06:12

Kper
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2017 : 05:54:08

With the engine prep delay possibilities you describe, what can I expect if I order through somebody like Defender or any other online outboard sales?

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...

DavidBuoy
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2017 : 05:55:42

I hope you have a year full of great sailing!

Last season was tough getting out for me as well. Always leaving town and especially since I'm in the middle of the wedding years. I actually pondered selling the boat last year after feeling like I didn't do it justice.

One thing that we started doing was blocking out a bunch of weekends on our calendar for sailing. That way when we would get invited or something would come up, we would check our calendar and kindly decline.

The story between us and our boat is similar to your's as well. Owned it for 3.5yrs and spent a lot of time repairing, maintaining, and upgrading things. I think one thing that is key for me is that if there's a choice between going out sailing on a great day, and fixing something I've been meaning to.. sailing should and does win most of the time. Unless a repair is critical, it can usually wait until after you're done having fun.

I create lists every year for the winter time when doing those "nagging" repairs makes more sense. If something bothers me a little bit with the boat, and its not a quick and simple job.. I wait for the winter and I'll have that for next season. It is good thinking long-term so you don't get too swamped down in the dirty work.

Also, when making my lists I prioritize everything into Must-Do, Should-Do, Would like to-do; As well as into when it needs to happen chronologically - Before the season (or if I'm hauling), Beginning of season or any-time during. I can be daunting to look at a list, but it makes doing the small stuff you might otherwise forget about, easy to fit in.

This is mine from I believe last year:

But yea, this was a very long-winded way of saying to get out there any chance you have. haha!

Fair winds!

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2017 : 06:45:09

I do not have experience ordering an outboard online but I suspect that they would ship within 2 weeks only because I believe that online dealers are prepared to process fairly quickly or they would lose the business. Locally, you may also get quick service. Just that many local marinas have all sorts of other work that could get in the way - They are not always the most efficient and for some local suppliers, efficient is not a word commonly used to describe their work process. There are pro/con of going locally or online. Sometimes it is a nice convenience to have a local dealer at your disposal if any issues arise. Online - You will probably get a better price.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Kper
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2017 : 08:39:50

Thats quite the list, Rob. I thought I had a long list but you have me beat hands down.

Larry, the main reason I'm buying online is because outboards here are almost $1000 more for an equivalent Mercury to the Tahotsu I'm considering. Everything is more expensive here... 9.8 EL shaft merc-$3300, mast step-$200, <30' slip-$2700. Sucks to sail here but it's all we have.

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...

Kper
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2017 : 08:42:32

I should add that we are considering a mooring in Fish Creek, Wisconsin next year. Wouldn't sail as often but the experience would far exceed Iowa.

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...

TEM58
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2017 : 09:20:22

Kyle, I purchased an outboard online from onlineoutboards.com and was very happy with the process. It shipped quickly and was well priced. As far as the mast stepping goes, don't hesitate to build the a-frame and use it. I built one for my 25, watched Davy's videos about a hundred times, read every discussion, then used it with zero issues. Circumstances forced me to do it alone the first time so I chose a day with no wind, then when I was done I wondered what the big deal was. Get a helper or two, be careful, think it through, and do it.

Tim M
�Perfect Match II�
2003 C350 #35
Cruising FL
PO "Wine Down"
2000 C250 WK #453
PO "Perfect Match"
1983 C25 SR/SK #3932
Lake Belton
Belton, TX

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2017 : 09:58:52

Well Kyle I just went to my marina to pay my 2017 summer slip. $3,428.87. The grass isn't always greener elsewhere. FYI that's with a 5% discount for being a year round customer. My winter storage was $1,767. You at least save the winter with the trailer so $200 total for your storage for the winter is a bargain to me. Make an AFrame and you can avoid that.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2017 : 10:47:26

One thing to also consider if purchasing your outboard online. You may want to purchase online an outboard that you know is commonly sold/worked by a local dealer. Many local outboard mechanics may be able to service all sorts of outboards, even those they do not sell locally. But online purchase for an outboard commonly serviced by a local dealer may be best to ensure you can readily obtain needed maintenance parts which you can also get online but in a pinch, can also obtain from the local dealer. Case in point, I was changing out the water impeller, oil/filter, fuel filter, spark plugs and lower gear oil. I have a Honda 9.9 extra long shaft and when it came to installing the water impeller, it would not fit. I checked the specs and then found that the local dealer supplied me the wrong water impeller. I was able to discuss this with the local dealer and his digital parts catalog indicated the water impeller he had provided me. But I indicated the part number I should have received which was for a larger diameter shaft used in the extra long shaft 9.9 Honda. It did not come up in his digital catalog. He then went back to where he kept the impellers and matched up the part number I needed and he had it. he then entered the number as a search in his digital catalog and by doing the parts number search, he did come up with the same impeller but not when he entered the model number - strange. Anyway, I was then able to install the impeller the next day which was great since I had my boat in the yard for only one week to complete bottom painting. if I had to order the part online, I probably would have had to pay to keep my boat in the yard for a longer period since they charged a flat fee for the first week and then a daily higher cost for each day up to a max of 2 weeks. The marina had limited space for yard work (minor repairs/maintenance) and that's why this was a time dependent issue. Having a local dealer that normally serviced Hondas worked for me. They also serviced most of the major brands including Tohatsu and Yamaha but not sure if they normally worked on Mercurys.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 03/09/2017 10:49:09

Kper
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2017 : 10:57:01

But what do you have for accommodations? I'm not saying I have the most expensive slip in the country but prices went up $400 this year so I would expect something more than a 400 sq foot store, no food or drinks available, an outhouse equivalent restroom with no showers and a lake that often has logs floating in it, so dirty you can't see 6" under water and yearly blue algae that makes entry in the water dangerous. Shore power is extra and if we want a dock box we must purchase it from guess who?

After sailing in Green Bay and Lake Michigan we developed an appreciation for the area. With a $500 mooring fee we figure we could make a lot of long weekend trips with the 5th wheel for $2200.

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2017 : 14:30:16

If the sailing area isnt any good then yes it might be better to look elsewhere. I justify my costs do to the close proximity and a great sailing area. It is a full service marina that has a pool, showers, laundry restaurant/ bar etc but I'm not looking for a country club. A Slip and 3 cleats with good weather protection are all I need.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Kper
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2017 : 17:44:36

quote:
Originally posted by islander

....A Slip and 3 cleats with good weather protection are all I need.

I'm tracking with that!

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...

DavidCrosby
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
229 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2017 : 19:59:47

Wow, you guys are really making me appreciate my sailing venue.

I keep my boat at Carlyle Sailing Association, Carlyle, Illinois. Our club is a dry sail facility. The boat is kept on it's trailer, rigged and ready to go. I can launch the boat, park the tow vehicle/trailer and be ready to depart the dock in just over 20 minutes (doing it all by myself).

We have a great facility with a club house, bath house, pavilion, Harbor Master for security, four 200' floating docks, 3 hoists to launch the day sailors, a great racing program, free gin pole to raise your mast, numerous events, etc. 26,000 acre lake. Lots of great people that are willing to help in all sorts of ways.

My fee for the 2017 sailing season (mid April - early November) is $505.00 ($830 - $300 credit for volunteer work hours - $25 incentive to pay before Feb. 15). Work hour credit is awarded at $20/hour for a maximum of 15 hours.

Regarding raising/lowering the mast, I definitely would not pay $200. It is easier than most people think. Three guys and a line and you can do this without any setup. Once the step is pinned, 2 guys leapfrog it up, while the third pulls on a long line attached to a halyard or forestay. That is the simplest solution. There are a lot of solutions, to the point that with the correct setup you can raise and lower the mast by yourself. I could walk you through all sorts of scenarios. I personally have lowered a keel stepped mast on a Morgan 30 without the use of a gin pole.

David Crosby "Small World"
'02 C250 WK #614

Kper
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2017 : 04:04:02

Carlyle Lake? That's where we purchased our boat. We actually purchased it in a barn on the south side of Scott AFB but, it was sailed at that lake. It was formally named Margarita with 8" bold script on both flanks. I also stopped by the lake to look at another C25 that was for sale but was unable to view the bottom and it had been sitting in the water for years, the owner said. I was happy with the office staff who showed me some of the boats for sale on the hard and the docks looked pleasant. David, next time you're near Lake Red Rock give me a shout and we can cast off - maybe you can give us some pointers and enjoy the day.

Our Marina is under new ownership. Unfortunately they also own the only marina at the nearest lake to us. They are planning some upgrades but the first thing they did is raise rates and charge for everything that wasn't charged before. They used to assist with launching, if they had time, free of charge. Now it's a hundred and something. Step your mast for $80, now $200. It goes on and on. I suppose everyone will get used to it or leave - some have left. To add to all that, now that they own this marina, too, the word is out that very few boaters are on this lake so tons of power boaters are showing up. It used to be dominated with fishing boats along the shore speckled with sailboats. Much different scenario last year. If the wind was right we used to be able to point to the other end of the lake and sail almost care free for 7 miles. Now there's boats constantly crossing and few seem to know any boating rules.

Not trying to complain, just disappointed a bit. The sailing can still be great if I let the "good 'ol days" fade.... look at me, trying to sound like an old rusty sailer! lol

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...

DavidCrosby
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
229 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2017 : 09:34:55

quote:
Originally posted by Kper

David, next time you're near Lake Red Rock give me a shout and we can cast off - maybe you can give us some pointers and enjoy the day.

I just looked up where you are located. Appears to be less than 5 hours from where I live. I might just have to take you up on that offer just to go sailing elsewhere.

Also, since you mentioned Fish Creek and Green Bay. A group of us from Carlyle took our boats to Green Bay last summer. We based out of Fish Creek for the week. We enjoyed ourselves so much that we are going back to Door County again this year. The plans are to go farther north. Washington Island is definitely in our sights. We may launch at Peninsula State Park. Leave the vehicles and trailers at Fish Creek's long term parking and then make our way north from there. The only thing planned at this point is that we are going the last full week of July.

David Crosby "Small World"
'02 C250 WK #614

Kper
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2017 : 11:00:35

David, I sent you an email.

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.