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Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/30/2016 : 17:40:34

Hello Everyone,

Does anyone happen to know what Amps are delivered on normal 110/120 volt household current ? I have noticed that while trying to recharge portable tool batteries on 30 amp shore power that it seems to take a lot longer. Thanks.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2016 : 18:48:21

Hi Guy,

Typical household service drops start around 100A and go up from there. However, the typical amperage for interior household circuits (like for electrical outlets and lights) is only 15A. Your portable power tools are designed to be plugged into outlets on 15A circuits, and so draw less than 15A. So I guess there must be something else causing slow charging.

Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2016 : 21:15:02

A 30 amp circuit at 110 volts should be able to deliver much more wattage (3300) than a tool charger can use. (Mine uses 80 watts, which at 110 volts is .72 amp.) The question is whether a full 110 volts are reaching your charger, and not being an electrical engineer, I think that's the key variable for a charger. The length and gauge of the wire, plus possible corrosion in connections and circuit breakers along the way, might be reducing the voltage. All of that is more questionable in a marina than in your house. A volt meter can give you a clue.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/30/2016 21:31:57

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2016 : 03:27:54

Your 30amp shore power supplies your 2 15amp outlets on your boat. This 15amps is the same as an outlet in your house. You can plug any device that is rated for 15amps or less into either outlet. A tool battery charger won't come close to this so I agree with Dave on being skeptical about the marina power supply or its just like waiting for a pot to boil. It could also be that the battery packs are getting old?

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 12/01/2016 03:39:33

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2016 : 09:53:10

Hi guys,

Looks like its time to do some testing with a volt/Ohm meter to see whats up with the marina's shore power. And yes, my battery packs are getting old but they were still charging faster than this on household current. Thanks again everyone.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2016 : 10:05:04

Forgot to mention,

And this may be relevant or not but you guys will know better than I. My boat has 3 or 4 AC outlets installed and I plan on installing one more because none of those are GFI. Also, I am not currently using any of them as I have not yet installed my new AC breaker switch. I am using the shore power outlet from the marina by using an adapter from WM then plugging in a regular heavy duty 25' extension cord to power stuff I'm using. Should I eliminate those extra outlets when I get my breaker installed ?

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2016 : 12:03:45

You can put in more outlets but assuming they are also 15amp outlets will mean that you can't plug in anything rated over 15amps into any one outlet or over 30amps total in multiple outlets. No need to eliminate your existing outlets. Right now your set up with the extension cord has you limited to 15amps total at at all the outlets so you could overpower the extension cord. As an example say you plug in 2 devices that use 9amps. That would be a total of 18mps, 3amps more than the power cord is rated at but it won't trip the 30amp circuit breaker in the boat because it's still under 30amps. You said it a heavy duty cord so maybe its a20amp cord. If you just have the cord connected to the Marina shore power box using an adapter and NOT to the shore power inlet on the boat and just want to power a few tools you are fine. The only thing wrong is that you have a 15 or 20 amp cord hooked to a 30amp circuit breaker at the box and technically from an electricians point of view that is a no no.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 12/01/2016 12:52:55

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2016 : 16:08:49

You may already be planning this, but if you wire your outlets in series, including the ground wires, with one of the outlets being a GFCI , a ground fault in anything plugged into any of the outlets will trigger the GFCI and shut down all of them. That way you have ground fault protection at all outlets from a single GFCI. A downside is the total current capacity on all of the outlets would be controlled by a single breaker, which probably shouldn't be greater than 15 amps.

(Full disclosure: I personally wouldn't follow my own advice on this--I'm not a fan of amateur 110VAC wiring installations, particularly in boats.)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/01/2016 16:14:04

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4275 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2016 : 17:41:41

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

You may already be planning this, but if you wire your outlets in series, including the ground wires, with one of the outlets being a GFCI , a ground fault in anything plugged into any of the outlets will trigger the GFCI and shut down all of them. That way you have ground fault protection at all outlets from a single GFCI. A downside is the total current capacity on all of the outlets would be controlled by a single breaker, which probably shouldn't be greater than 15 amps.

(Full disclosure: I personally wouldn't follow my own advice on this--I'm not a fan of amateur 110VAC wiring installations, particularly in boats.)

If I remember correctly, the GFCI should be the first outlet closest to the incoming power when there are multiple outlets on the same circuit. This provides protection for all the outlets downstream on the circuit. If it's in the middle or at the far end of the circuit the outlets before it will not be protected.

There should also be no more than one GFCI per circuit.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2016 : 18:54:18

Dave and Gary are correct about only needing one GFCI per circuit as long as it is placed in the first outlet of a daisy chained circuit.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 12/01/2016 18:55:50

Bladeswell
Captain

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490 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2016 : 19:15:20

Hi Again,

Yeppers. That is what I have read as well. and that is my plan. When I install the new AC breaker the GFCI outlet will be installed just below it and all the downstream outlets will be connected from there. Thanks again guys.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2016 : 21:19:23

Yes, the GFCI outlet is first on the circuit, wired in serial to the circuit to protect the other outlets on the circuit, which are wired in parallel. See, my original statement was "almost right". Get an electrician--preferably one with marine experience. This is not ropes and cleats--lives and property are at stake.

Curmudgeon out.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2016 : 07:28:52

All good advice about 110VAC circuits on.boats but I'm with Dave. While 12VDC systems that go wrong can only burn your boat to waterline, incorrectly wiring up AC can really ruin your day. You can kill yourself but worse you might kill others.
If you've already done the work yourself, please please please call a qualified electrician to check your work. Pay their rate for a few hours' time. You won't regret it.
What could go wrong?
1. We reviewed GFCI. If incorrectly wired this leads to a false sense of security.
2. Swapping ground, neutral and hot. Hard to tell if it's right or wrong in every case even if you can read a polarity indicator.
3. Grounding hot to the boat "ground", i.e. keel, engine, lightning ground plate or rigging.
#3 electrifies the marina water, especially if fresh or brackish. People fall in and get zapped.
There's more, like electrifying the case of electrical appliances or tools.
Please don't risk disaster.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2016 : 07:42:11

Ah going back to the original thread. Are you saying the battery charger on your boat doesn't work as well as your charger at home? Is it the same brand or different? If you're using the same exact charger in both locations then I'd suspect the 12VDC charging circuit in the boat, not the charger. For example I'd test continuity of the cables with an Ohmmeter set on either a 1 or 10 Ohm setting. Obviously test only the wiring with the battery disconnected and AC power turned off.
Unless your boat is undervoltaged by the shore power (e.g. 75-95VAC), the charger will only draw its rated current either at home or on the boat irrespective of the available AC current rating of the outlet assuming it's at least 15 A.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2016 : 20:10:59

Hi Again Everyone,

The charger I'm referring to is for a portable power tool so its the same charger whether at home or the boat. I will take your advice and have my work examined by a professional before I power up anything. While it doesn't seem like rocket science I do not claim to be an electrician either. Better safe than sorry. Thanks again everyone.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2016 : 21:36:04

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

...If you're using the same exact charger in both locations then I'd suspect the 12VDC charging circuit in the boat, not the charger...

I think he's charging off 110VAC from the marina's shore power. That's why I suspected a voltage drop somewhere--it's not uncommon in a marine environment.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2016 : 18:02:27

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

...If you're using the same exact charger in both locations then I'd suspect the 12VDC charging circuit in the boat, not the charger...
I think he's charging off 110VAC from the marina's shore power. That's why I suspected a voltage drop somewhere--it's not uncommon in a marine environment.

Especially if way out on the dock.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

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