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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Life lines yes or no

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pearson39b
1st Mate

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93 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2016 : 12:29:29

This is a very timely discussion. I've been thinking hard about taking the lifelines and stanchions off my boat, so these comments really help - Good info on both sides of the issue.

I'm not totally convinced either way, but there are a couple of negatives that I've been considering and maybe worth mentioning at this point.\

One negative is the trip hazard lines pose when you're getting on or off the boat at the dock. Falling off the boat onto the dock is one thing, falling on your face is another. Maybe I'm just clumsy, but I have caught my foot in a line getting off at the shrouds, and I do worry about that with my passengers as well.

Another concern is misplaced trust in a line's ability to support a person if they lean back or pull against it. I know of at least one fellow instructor who had to have his students pull him back on board when he made this mistake! I've also had Pelican hooks come off because they somehow came unthreaded. The integrity of vinyl covered lines is also a problem, particularly where they pass through the stanchions.

I guess my greatest worry is that my passengers and crew tend to use lifelines to steady themselves while they are going forward or returning to the cockpit. Lifelines are a poor balance support whereas grab rails and shrouds are much sturdier and more reliable. As a sidenote, I've had much better practice in this area since I've started people to "go slow and go low" when they're going on deck. Makes them much more likely to use the rails and keep their CG low.

Anyhow, these are the arguments I'm considering for my decision. For what it's worth....

Sailor Jerry
C-25 "Sea Song"
1978, SK, Std.
Pepin, WI

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2016 : 12:53:48

Hello All,

As pearson said, I dont for a minute think you can totally rely on life lines and stantions to keep you on the boat. And I absolutely agree with ,"go slow and go low". Because we know the limitations of life lines and stantions, that is why if we are going off shore or into iffy conditions we should be wearing a harness and tether attached to jack lines that are secured to the boat in the best possible way to insure our safety. With jack lines run correctly and a tether of the correct length you shouldn't be able to go over the side...in theory. But if I should have one of those moments when I slip or loose my footing for whatever reason, I would at least prefer to have the ability to try for a last grab at a stantion or a life line that "might" fail rather than having nothing but thin air to grasp for.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2016 : 13:20:53

quote:
Originally posted by pearson39b

One negative is the trip hazard lines pose when you're getting on or off the boat at the dock. Falling off the boat onto the dock is one thing, falling on your face is another. Maybe I'm just clumsy, but I have caught my foot in a line getting off at the shrouds, and I do worry about that with my passengers as well.

People often try to step off a boat onto a dock with one foot while the other foot is still on the boat, inside the lifelines. When they try to bring the other foot onto the dock, they don't raise it high enough to clear the lifeline, so they trip. Everyone who boards a boat should be taught how to step on and off it.

When you board a boat over lifelines, you step one foot on the gunwale, and then do the same with the other foot. Then you step one foot over the lifelines, followed by the other foot.

When you leave, you grasp the shroud, step one foot over the lifelines and step on the gunwale, facing the shroud. Then you lift the other foot over the lifelines and place it on the dock, and you're off the boat, without tripping over the lifelines.

The reason why people usually trip getting off a boat is because they step over the lifelines directly onto the dock with one foot while the other foot is still on the boat, inside the lifelines. When they try to bring the other foot over the lifelines, they don't raise it high enough and it trips them.

You have to first get both feet outside the lifelines before you step onto the dock.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2016 : 17:35:29

When I bought my boat I took my wife down to look at it and get her blessing. She is NOT a boat person.

I gave her the tour and when we were getting off the boat she in one smooth move stepped up on the gunwale, turned around and started to step backwards to put her foot on the dock. At exactly the same time the boat started to drift away from the doc, I moved quickly to grab the stern line and pull it back to the dock but was too late. How she didn't catch her chin on the gunwale as she went in is beyond me.

She went ALL the way to the mucky bottom losing a brand new high dollar sandal. Came up looking like a drowned rat. I almost fell off myself I was laughing so hard. Being the awesome spouse she is (went boat shopping for 3 days during our honeymoon!) she was laughing harder than I was!

Scary part was these were old fixed docks and there was no ladder nearby for her to climb up. She was able to come up the stern ladder with some help.

No dry clothes during a mid-October cool front made for a long wet drive home in see-thru clothes (not that I minded). :)

Good news is she gave her blessing and the rest is history!

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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2016 : 17:49:59

She's definitely a keeper, Gary! By the way, it was all your fault. Admit it and you're golden!

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2016 : 18:08:59

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

She's definitely a keeper, Gary! By the way, it was all your fault. Admit it and you're golden!

Yes she is. Love of my life!

Never admit it, that would be too boring. I like playing with fire! Oh, did I mention she's part Irish and a red-head!

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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

SKS
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2016 : 05:20:42

I general open up the gate using the pelican hook and get on and off that way, although when getting off midships or forward, I'm careful to step over the lifelines first and then onto the dock.
As to the original question: I vote YES for lifelines.

"Lady E" 1986 Catalina 25: Fin Keel, Standard Rig, Inboard M12 Diesel, Sail No. 5339
Sailing out of Norwalk Cove Marina, Connecticut

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2016 : 08:13:20

And . . . . not to rain on anyone's parade . . . . . if you finally decide to remove lifelines/stations make sure you first review your boat insurance to make sure their is no clause stating that "modifying" or "removing built in" safety gear would/could be a reason to terminate/not honor your insurance policy.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT