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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Life lines yes or no

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Sailynn
Navigator

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USA
178 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/09/2016 : 19:41:57

Been sailing 30 years plus and never cared for lifelines on smaller boats. I'm a certified keelboat Instructor and am very comfortable on smaller boats. I have two artificial knees and am a well fed skipper. This is our 6th C25 and I am trying to convince my hubby to remove the lifelines like we did on our C22's. He says he can't remember seeing a C25 without lifelines. Does anyone have theirs removed and could you send a picture?

Lynn Buchanan
1988 C25 SR/WK #5777
Sailynn
Nevada City, CA

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2016 : 04:37:57

I prefer lifelines generally, but all the Cal 25s in the one design class that I race in have removed them, because they interfere with sail trimming. Lifelines give you one last chance to grab hold of something just before you slide off the foredeck, which can happen more easily on a smaller boat. To compensate for their absence, I require anyone who leaves the cockpit on my boat to be wearing a pfd. Anyone who considers removing them should practice MOB boat handling. As an instructor, I'm sure you're already well-practiced in that regard. I keep an inflatable pfd on board for the foredeck crew to use, in case (s)he doesn't have one, because they're more comfortable and less cumbersome to use.

I didn't remove mine from my Catalina 25, and rarely had much of a problem with them interfering with sail trim, even though I raced it a lot.

Personally, I feel a little nekked and vulnerable on the foredeck of a boat that doesn't have them.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2016 : 04:49:13

is this your boat?

5696 - Boker Tov, 1987 Standard, Wing Keel
Keith Singer, AZ USA

if it is , you should update the registry

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3312 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2016 : 04:52:05

I'm with Steve on this one. I raced on a C22 without them and in a good wind I was scared shxtless.

Derek Crawford
Chief Measurer C25-250 2008
Previous owner of "This Side UP"
1981 C-25 TR/FK #2262 Used to have an '89 C22 #9483, "Downsized"
San Antonio, Texas

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2016 : 07:13:22

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

...As an instructor, I'm sure you're already well-practiced in that regard...

...but are your guests well-practiced in case you're the one who goes "Oops!"?

On mine, I could imagine running the lines through the forward two stanchions and anchoring them at the bases of the third stanchions, just forward of the cockpit. The cabintop hand rails are good hand-holds moving forward--forward of those you'd still have the lifelines. (?)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2016 : 08:15:33

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

...As an instructor, I'm sure you're already well-practiced in that regard...
...but are your guests well-practiced in case you're the one who goes "Oops!"?

On a race boat, someone on the crew has basic boat handling skills and could bring the boat around if the skipper fell off. Also, I almost never leave the cockpit when I have crew, and wear a pfd when I do. When I'm racing singlehanded, it's in busy Annapolis harbor, where help is nearby. I don't race the Cal singlehanded in the Bay. Sails on my Cal can be raised, lowered and reefed singlehanded from the cockpit, and I only have to leave the cockpit to furl the mainsail on the boom or to lash down the jib when it's on the deck. I can tether if it's really rough, but I don't race the Cal singlehanded if it's really rough. Those are nominal risks that every singlehander takes.

Why do you want to remove the lifelines? They're seldom in the way on a C25, it would be a lot of work to remove them and plug the bolt holes, and I think eventual knowledgeable buyers would rather have them. I've sailed C25s since about 1979, and have never seen one without lifelines, although it is my vague recollection that they were optional when I ordered mine new in 1980, however I'm not sure of that.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2016 : 18:13:23

It looks great on this Catalina 25: http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=25069&whichpage=1

I'd remove mine if I didn't have young children that rely upon them. They also help me when carrying a heavy toolbox on and off the boat.

Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2016 : 18:15:51

Frank Hopper (handle: pastmember) taught us in another thread some years ago about how to affectively use our lower-height lifelines:

"Plant your food and lift on the life line with your hand!"

I can't find the thread because the search function still doesn't work properly.

Edited by - sethp001 on 08/11/2016 19:12:48

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2016 : 18:24:23

quote:
Originally posted by sethp001

It looks great on this Catalina 25: http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=25069&whichpage=1

I'd remove mine if I didn't have young children that rely upon them. They also help me when carrying a heavy toolbox on and off the boat.

Wow, a lot of names from the past on that post. A lot of good people that I guess have moved on.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2016 : 19:59:22

Hey, I said that!

Frank Hopper

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2016 : 20:03:43

quote:
Originally posted by pastmember

Hey, I said that!

No matter who says it, Dave gets credit! What's up with that?

BTW... that procedure definitely works. I've used it more than once to keep from going overboard in Galveston Bay! At least until I got my roller furler. Never been out of the cockpit since. Best purchase I've made.

Speaking of Dave...

What is it he always says? "Pull one string, go sailing, pull another string and your done sailing"?

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - GaryB on 08/10/2016 20:18:15

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2016 : 10:38:42

Hi Lynn,

My boat does not currently have life lines or staunches installed. One of my P.O.s apparently thought it a good idea to remove them. Before I do much more than motor around the bay I will be reinstalling them. Here is a pic as you requested.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2016 : 16:02:30

There has been many posts through the years about falling overboard. Every thing from jack lines to stanchions and lifelines. I am curious as to the reality of it. Not counting those that race or cross oceans, How many of you have actually fallen overboard and did the lifelines actually save you? Falling off the boat at the dock doesn't count either

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2016 : 17:28:31

quote:
Originally posted by islander

Not counting those that race...

Racers' lives matter!

An elder racer in my Cal 25 one design racing class fell out of the cockpit and overboard during a race last fall, and the two racers who were leading at the time diverted to pull him out of the Bay. I don't know how it happened, but his boat had no lifelines.

A straw poll like this doesn't tell the whole story with regard to lifelines. You can also grasp them to steady yourself and aid your balance, especially when forward of the grab rails. When the boat is heeling and the decks are wet, you can wedge a foot against a stanchion to keep from sliding off the low side. I've done that many times.

There's really no way you can quantify the number of times one would have fallen off, but for the lifelines and stanchions.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2016 : 19:13:54

quote:
Originally posted by pastmember

Hey, I said that!

Sorry Frank! I edited my post above to make the correction!

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2016 : 20:16:46

quote:
Originally posted by GaryB

Speaking of Dave... What is it he always says? "Pull one string, go sailing, pull another string and your done sailing"?

Yup--my semi-irregular advertisement for roller-furling and genny-alone sailing.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Sailynn
Navigator

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USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2016 : 21:03:35

thanks for the picture and links. I have roller furling lines, long wooden handrails and a bimini. Lots of things to hang onto so I'm not worried about that. and being a certified sailing instructor all guests and students are required to wear a life vest, even my six lb. dog, if they are outside the cabin. After seeing the pics vs. my c22 it makes the bigger boat look a little naked. Maybe I just need to developed a technique to get around the bimini struts even when they are down. Time will tell. thanks for the comments.

Lynn Buchanan
1988 C25 SR/WK #5777
Sailynn
Nevada City, CA

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2016 : 22:03:03

More safety never hurts. 'Nuff said.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Sailynn
Navigator

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USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2016 : 23:06:42

quote:
Originally posted by dasreboot

is this your boat?

5696 - Boker Tov, 1987 Standard, Wing Keel
Keith Singer, AZ USA

if it is , you should update the registry

Lynn Buchanan
1988 C25 SR/WK #5777
Sailynn
Nevada City, CA

Sailynn
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2016 : 23:11:45

I'm already registered. But thanks for the heads up as my profile needed updating. I was the previous owner before Keith and family. They bought a larger boat in Mexico, and we bought the boat back in May 2016 and sail it in CA and trailer it to AZ for Snow-birding.

Lynn Buchanan
1988 C25 SR/WK #5777
Sailynn
Nevada City, CA

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2016 : 04:07:41

I like having the lifelines.

Also, if you do not have lifelines, then where are the birds going to safely perch ?

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2016 : 04:19:14

Ha,Ha, Bird perch,yep. They also make for an excellent clothes line.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2016 : 07:44:53

Hi Again,

As I said earlier, my boat does not currently have life lines or stanchions. But I definitely plan on installing them. I know that our boats normally only have one lifeline and our stanchions are 22" tall. I have looked into having them made so that they will take dual line life lines. The cost of the two line stanchions is not much more but the extra life line itself would be nearly $400 more. If I did this, would it be worth it ? I'm also concerned about the ability to pull oneself back on board between the lines if that space goes from 22" to 11".

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2016 : 08:36:23

I too like the lifelines and don't intend on removing them but sometimes I question just how safe they are. Think about the damage you could do to yourself if you tripped or slipped and fell directly on top of a stanchion.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2016 : 10:01:34

quote:
Originally posted by islander

...Think about the damage you could do to yourself if you tripped or slipped and fell directly on top of a stanchion.

Remember the old adage: "One hand for the boat." (...especially on the hard, 8' above the ground!)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/12/2016 10:03:49

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2016 : 14:50:46

When I was younger I might have said "lifelines? why?" as I age I realize that safety is so important and lifelines are more than essentially important!!! But, you be your own judge . . . .

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

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