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John L Murphy
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/22/2016 : 10:26:16

I recently purchased a Catalina 25 and could use any advice. I have an issue and have gotten some guidance from others, but was told that I should try to speak with others owners here. The link below will give you some background on the problem.

http://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/i-am-in-deep-trouble-mayday.178955/

Thanks in advance

John

John L Murphy

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2016 : 12:07:43

Geez John Sorry this happened but I think you did some major damage. It appears that the seal between the keel and trunk was broken. The marina put a band aid on it to stop the leak but it does look like the keel needs to be removed, Rebedded and reinstalled along with fixing any bolt problems. The chunks missing along the leading edge are a cosmetic fix. If the keel moves even a little then just glassing over the crack won't hold up and will crack again. Rough decision that only you can make as whether to fix it or not.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2016 : 16:11:04

Thinking about this more..There might be a less expensive way out. Rather than tossing the boat or trying to sell it as is and I don't see much hope in that and this depends on if an 84 has Stainless keel bolts. I'm guessing the keel bolts got compressed into the trunk and are now somewhat loose causing the keel to wobble and forming the crack. This is just a thought but you could get 1/4" plate aluminum and make large backing plates for each of the keel bolts. You then remove one nut at a time and caulk each rod well then put the backing plate on then the nut and washer. Once that is done alternately tighten the nuts. Hopefully this will draw the keel back up tight again. If this works and the keel is tight against the trunk and doesn't wobble then re-fiberglass the crack to keep water from getting to the trunk and fix the missing chunks. I think it might be worth a shot without having to spend much especially if they are quoting you prohibitive amounts to drop the keel. Not many alternatives because dropping a full keel isn't a DIY job. You would have to do this on land with the boat blocked and the keel supported.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 05/22/2016 16:12:48

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2016 : 18:00:37

John, sorry for your trouble. I looked at the thread on the other forum - it's a shark pit!

I don't have any answers for you but wanted to suggest sticking around this forum for more info that might help. Almost everybody on here tries to be helpful and encouraging. There's lots of experienced members that have a wealth of knowledge and are happy to share it like Scott above.

Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/

Edited by - sethp001 on 05/22/2016 18:01:29

Sam001
Vice Commodore

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USA
441 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2016 : 08:15:47

John, Welcome to the forum. I read the other thread and would like to know what marina you used?
I grew up on Isle of Hope and "played" from Hilton Head to Hells gate.
There are lots of nasty's in that area.
I second the stick around the forum, it has provided great knowledge for me.
Good luck on the boat repair or replacement.

Capt Sam, USCG Master Near Coastal
Isle of Hope, GA. Charleston,SC. Lake Murray, SC.
Aboard Bobbin - 1982 Standard Rig-Swing Keel #2963 Dinette Model
"On a powerboat you are going somewhere....On a Sailboat you are Already There!" Capt Sam

http://my.boatus.com//memberPhotos/6315398_1_25502.jpg

John L Murphy
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
5 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2016 : 09:59:50

Thanks for the advice thus far. Only the front keel bolt seems effected. But will try the suggestion for a fix with all to make sure. Then I will repair the glass as well.

I took it to Sail Harbor initially and that's where I got the quote.

John L Murphy

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2016 : 08:03:34

Welcome John... Sad story. Looking at your pictures, it appears you have an '84 or later model that has the encapsulated lead keel. It attaches to a "stub" that is part of the hull molding--you can barely see the line about 6-8" below the bottom of the hull. That's where the infamous "Catalina smile" occurs. Inside the boat, the stub is the sump you see with the keel bolts in its bottom. As you've no doubt heard, the big gouge is no big deal--that's the fibrous encapsulation around the lead.

What concerns me is the crack along the bottom of the hull, above the bottom of the stub. It looks like the bolted joint between the lead keel and the hull stub is intact, but the fiberglass above it was cracked. "Dropping and rebedding the keel" would be repairing that lower seam, while it appears your problem is with the hull above it. If that's the case, I'd have a Certified Marine Surveyor take a look, and ask him about repairing it by adding structural layers of fiberglass both inside and on the outside of the hull at that crack. For his information, there is 1900 lbs. of lead bolted to the stub. You can check this site for a list of surveyors in your area.

If I'm right, and there's a high probability I'm not, the repair might not be as complicated as some on the other forum have imagined.

On the subject of insuring against damage with an older boat like this, if a repair would cost more than the value of the boat, the insurer will declare the boat "totaled" (like a car) and give you its book value minus any deductible (and usually take the boat). So it's the same decision as collision insurance on an older car. But I would never, ever go sailing on a boat that doesn't have liability insurance. The potential financial risk there is of a whole different magnitude. If you ever run into another boat and/or somebody gets hurt........

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/24/2016 08:09:31

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2016 : 09:10:14

Dave, After looking at more photos I think you might be right. It appears that his crack is higher than where it would be for the keel to stub joint. I would now look at the top of the bilge sump for cracking and water seepage. You could wiggle the keel and see if there is any movement of the fiberglass along the top of the bilge sump.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

John L Murphy
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
5 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2016 : 16:38:00

Thanks everyone for the information

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