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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

V berth bulkhead

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Pizza Party
Deckhand

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18 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/17/2016 : 03:44:38

I am refinishing the woodwork throughout my recently acquired 1983 TR fixed keel dinette style cat 25. I have removed the bulkhead dividing the vberth from what was once the head/sink (both have already been permanently removed). Now I am going back and forth between my options. I could simply reinstall the bulkhead and settle for two obvious hanging lockers and/or possibly an added cabinet, or I could indulge in the new found openness of the forward berth and set loose my schemes of further modification. I need some assurance that the boat won't rip itself apart without the half inch teak ply bulkhead.

Is the vberth bulkhead structural?

As far as I can tell the main bulkhead/compression post obviously bare the brunt of the force from the rig, but the location of the forward lower backing plates does concern me. They are about halfway between the two bulkheads.

Anyone care to shed some light on this?

1983 TR FK Dinette C25 on Lake Superior

Edited by - Pizza Party on 04/17/2016 07:11:59

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/17/2016 : 17:42:35

I didn't build the boat so I can't say if its strucual, It could possibly give support to the deck.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2016 : 19:29:34

It is a mod that has been done before to extend the berth. The bulkhead does not appear to be structural to me.

Frank Hopper

Sailynn
Navigator

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178 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2016 : 23:34:17

I would check with Catalina Yacht engineering Depth. to be sure on a modification that important.

Lynn Buchanan
1988 C25 SR/WK #5777
Sailynn
Nevada City, CA

Pizza Party
Deckhand

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18 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2016 : 17:59:25

I think that's the best approach as well. I suppose I was hoping to hear from someone who has already made that call before. I'll post what I found out after I talk to Catalina.

1983 TR FK Dinette C25 on Lake Superior

Pizza Party
Deckhand

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18 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2016 : 08:28:44

I've been informed from Catalina that it can be done but is not recommended. I was advised to consider reinforcing the deck to make up for the loss of the "some support" the bulkheads provide.

As far as my plans are concerned, I could play it safe and put them back in, give in to my paranoia and reinforce the deck, or throw cautious to the wind and leave them out anyway.

I have little plans to go out in any heavy weather in the foreseeable future, and could easily put the bulkheads back in before I left the dock for anything more than the light day sailing I expect for most of the season.

For what it's worth, I'll be seeking advice from a master boat builder on what possible reinforcement options might be suitable (if any are deemed necessary at all).

1983 TR FK Dinette C25 on Lake Superior

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3367 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2016 : 09:15:11

Another option, though, may be more trouble than it is worthwhile accomplishing, is to provide a cutaway on the bulkhead. That way, you widen the opening to the VBerth area mainly at the bunk level but widens to almost normal dimension at the cabin top. At the bunk level, still leaving 1/2 the width of the bulkhead on each side of the hull. Thought is that it would still provide substantial load support but obviously reduced. But is the project going to provide a feeling of the space being more open and would it be aesthetically acceptable - Not sure.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2016 : 09:21:16

I have to believe the cabin trunk is structurally stronger forward of the main bulkhead and compression post that it is aft of there with its huge opening for the pop-top. The coachroof is narrower forward, slightly crowned, and is plywood-cored from edge to edge. It isn't going to oil-can on you unless, perhaps, that plywood is completely rotten.

That's my take--maybe worth no more than you paid for it...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Pizza Party
Deckhand

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18 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2016 : 06:19:12

Partially removing the bulkhead is something I did consider, but ultimately is not what I am trying to achieve. I agree that it would probably be a viable option, albeit much less "space" rewarding.

I had the boat builder take a closer look at what I am considering, removing the bulkheads without any reinforcement in its place. He confidently assured me that the deck's support shouldn't be a problem at all, and then advised me to take measurements of the gap between the deck and bunk now and also while under sail in various conditions. If there is any problem with the rig wanting to pull the deck up, I will be able to tell then. If there was any sizeable difference I would need to address it.

We talked about that possibility, and he advised, if that was the case, to install tie rods from the forward lowers to the bunk below, which also would need some minor reinforcement and a backing plate. This would be less space expensive as well more structurally supportive (and a bit more involved...)

He said he would be really surprised if the deck did flex, even under sail, but if it did that adding the tie rods would definitely be enough to prevent the deck from wanting to be taken up by the rig.

For now though, I've taken my measurements, started a new log, and have one more reason to get out and sail!

1983 TR FK Dinette C25 on Lake Superior

offshoreaccount
1st Mate

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USA
71 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2016 : 09:18:47

Interesting plan. Gives up a hanging locker/head but if you sleep at the dock could be a good plan.

Offshore Account, 1977 Hull #243. SR, SK

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3367 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2016 : 10:09:56

Looks like you got some good advice and as you indicated, you now have a reason to sail. Sort of sailing, performance monitoring and a project all wrapped into one.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Jefffriday
Navigator

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198 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2016 : 18:59:42

I did it, I could not sleep comfortably in the V berth, but still wanted easy access to the head,

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byo9qY1ELeCaS3lIZ3BfM3B5M2s/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byo9qY1ELeCaZ3M4Sl81WXphcU0/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byo9qY1ELeCacGRrQ2VnTXJDbXM/view?usp=sharing

infinity
89 wk/sr #5860
Basalt CO.

offshoreaccount
1st Mate

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USA
71 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2016 : 19:33:28

Seems neat, but not sure I'm sold on keeping the head right underneath your head.

Offshore Account, 1977 Hull #243. SR, SK

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2016 : 21:10:59

quote:
Originally posted by offshoreaccount

Seems neat, but not sure I'm sold on keeping the head right underneath your head.

Ya, an enclosed head was one of my criteria that led me to the C-25. Lots of nice boats that would have worked better in the slip we had, had porta-potties under the V-berth insert. I had difficulty imagining how that would go over with my wife when I had to relieve my aging bladder at 4 AM...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Pizza Party
Deckhand

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18 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2016 : 05:20:04

It's funny to me that a marine head is such a necessary and debilitating evil in so many boaters minds. Personally, I will never have another boat with one.

When and if the bigger boat ever comes, it will be outfitted with a composting toilet. For a c25, I don't see any need for anything more than a a porta potty.

As far as porta potties are concerned I feel like the most natural place to use one is... In the cockpit. Business done outside is infinitely better than business done inside. Of course, this not a viable option for the dock (where you should be using the marina bathrooms any way), nor to the Victorian man or woman, but let's say we are in secluded anchorage (where we all would ideally have our boats and are also most likely to actually need the head) if you're on my boat, business is done top side or overboard.

Reality would have it be that a specific home be given to the crapper inside the boat since there is no sensible place to keep it topside, unless I could free up the gas locker somehow... I believe the best kind of porta potty is the unused kind. To the bilge locker it goes!

Jefffriday, thank you for sharing your pics. It is reassuring to see that the v berth being modified has worked on other boats. Though I will say that I agree with offshoreaccount's sentiment about sleeping above the porta potty, for the same reason I disagree with sleeping right next to a marine head as most seem content to do though.

1983 TR FK Dinette C25 on Lake Superior

Edited by - Pizza Party on 05/06/2016 05:23:19

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2016 : 05:46:17

quote:
Originally posted by Pizza Party

It's funny to me that a marine head is such a necessary and debilitating evil in so many boaters minds. Personally, I will never have another boat with one.

When and if the bigger boat ever comes, it will be outfitted with a composting toilet. For a c25, I don't see any need for anything more than a a porta potty.

As far as porta potties are concerned I feel like the most natural place to use one is... In the cockpit. Business done outside is infinitely better than business done inside. Of course, this not a viable option for the dock (where you should be using the marina bathrooms any way), nor to the Victorian man or woman, but let's say we are in secluded anchorage (where we all would ideally have our boats and are also most likely to actually need the head) if you're on my boat, business is done top side or overboard.

Reality would have it be that a specific home be given to the crapper inside the boat since there is no sensible place to keep it topside, unless I could free up the gas locker somehow... I believe the best kind of porta potty is the unused kind. To the bilge locker it goes!

Jefffriday, thank you for sharing your pics. It is reassuring to see that the v berth being modified has worked on other boats. Though I will say that I agree with offshoreaccount's sentiment about sleeping above the porta potty, for the same reason I disagree with sleeping right next to a marine head as most seem content to do though.

Hahahah, imagine installing it there in the locker.. taking a crap while sailing along!

On a side note, I recently heard that the statistics of drownings while falling overboard while urinating off of a boat are crazy!

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2016 : 07:31:31

Well gee, Why bother with the head at all. Just use Depends or better yet do your business on the cockpit floor then hose it out the scuppers!

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2016 : 07:45:29

quote:
Originally posted by islander

Well gee, Why bother with the head at all. Just use Depends or better yet do your business on the cockpit floor then hose it out the scuppers!

...so long as you have a good pair of sea boots!

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2016 : 15:59:22

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

WesAllen
Navigator

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USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2016 : 17:07:49

LOL, I guess that would be a PORTA-POTTI/DINGY?

Wesley Allen
"Breaking Wind"
1982 C-25 SR/TR/SK #2773
Hemlock, MI

offshoreaccount
1st Mate

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USA
71 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2016 : 18:55:30

The joke with technical divers was always to put kitty litter in your drysuit boots.

Offshore Account, 1977 Hull #243. SR, SK

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