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Head sails

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Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/16/2016 : 21:05:02

Hi Again,

A few days ago I finally got around to pulling all of my head sails out of their bags to examine them. Wow was I surprised. To begin with, I don't have any furling gear just the regular head stay. So needless to say I was expecting to find hank on head sails. Not counting the shute, I have 3 head sails. I am pretty sure one is a 150 or maybe a 155%. The others are smaller but I'm not sure of their sizes. Ullman says they will measure them and tell me their sizes, weights and conditions if I bring them down. Which I will do. Anyway, wouldn't hank on sails have grommets on the luff for the hanks ?
And if these are furling head sails, do you guys usually have this many sizes ? I thought a 135% could be reefed to about 110%. And I didn't know you could change a furling head sail without a lot of difficulty. Please enlighten me. I hope I have provided a good laugh or two. Thanks.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2016 : 19:26:45

Did the boat have a foil system on the forestay at some time? Is there a lot of upgraded gear on the boat or does it seem to be a stocker? If you determine that these sails have a useable luff tape on them then the ease of changing them will be determined by the brand of fuller you buy. A tall rig fin is worthy of racing, do you know if she has a racing history? CDI makes a fine fuller for a Catalina 25 at a very good price but it is a bad choice for someone who does headsail changes.

Frank Hopper

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2016 : 21:18:20

Hi Frank,

All of her standing rigging had just been replaced when I bought her. So that may be why the head stay is stock. I have no wish at this time to go with furling head sails. I was actually disappointed to find that I have no hank on sails. I do know that she has a racing history on Idaho and Oregon lakes. She had racing placks on her old bulkheads.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2016 : 08:25:03

A hank-on jib should have grommets and usually piston hanks, or some other means of attaching the jib to the forestay. Some sailmakers install grommets in their jibs, so that they can either attach piston hanks or attach a "cord" (Offhand I forget the term for it) for a roller furler.

Most C25 owners using hanked-on jibs have a 110 and a 150-155. A racer might use a 110, a 130-135 and a 155. Some organizations limit the number of jibs you can carry to 3. If the equipment is in good condition, you should be able to change either a hanked-on or furled headsail with about the same amount of effort. What makes it hard is if the waves are really choppy. In that case, it's much easier to furl a jib than to crawl out on the rolling foredeck to change it.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

dasreboot
Admiral

Members Avatar

803 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2016 : 08:39:07

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

attach a "cord" (Offhand I forget the term for it) for a roller furler.

I think it is luff tape

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

wanderer13
1st Mate

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USA
76 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2016 : 16:38:27

Hello Bladeswell. I am upgrading to a roller furler heads'l and will be ordering new sails. I have two 150 genoas and one working jib, all with hanks. Fair/serviceable condition. For a tall rig. Let me know if you're interested in them.
Jim

1981 Catalina 25 FK/TR

Bladeswell
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2016 : 20:11:14

Hello Again All,

Thanks Jim, I just might be interested, however it would be a while before I get to the point where I need them. So sell them if you can. So many other things to take care of first and its really hard for me to stay focused on the project at hand.
Steve, I was pretty certain that it should have had grommets and hanks also. It just surprised me that the boat has no furler yet has furling head sails. They do have a very skinny bolt rope along the luff contained by what I assume is luff tape. My desire is to have a 110%, a 135% and a 150-155% hank on sails. Depending on what the sail maker says is most commonly used in my area. But I am not planning on doing any racing. I just want to have on hand the most appropriate sail for the conditions at the time. And sense my main is new and never used, I'm thinking I would like to just get all new head sails when the time comes. Thanks everyone. And I may have some furling sails to sell after I have them looked over by the loft. I would hate to sell any as good if in fact they are shot.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2016 : 08:26:07

quote:
Originally posted by dasreboot

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

attach a "cord" (Offhand I forget the term for it) for a roller furler.

I think it is luff tape

Right! Thanks Todd.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2016 : 11:18:40

The good news is that used headsails aren't that expensive. In the two year period where a friend and I owned a hank on Catalina 25 TM we got a storm jib, 110%, 135%, and 155% headsails for it, all hank on and in excellent condition for a grand total under $500. It took a while of looking, but they were out there.

You can measure the sails yourself and compute the LP to figure out their sizes.

A sailmaker could install hanks on those sails for you if they are in good condition. Do they also have roller furling UV covering? Perhaps your boat was setup with a foil instead of hank-on sails? Adding a foil is pretty cheap.

Alex W
Seattle, WA
Express 37 "re-Quest"
previously owned 1984 Catalina 25 "Lutra"

Bladeswell
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2016 : 12:41:39

Hi Everyone,

No, none of the sails have the UV strips on them. Just one more thing I found odd.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

dasreboot
Admiral

Members Avatar

803 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2016 : 04:59:09

quote:
Originally posted by Bladeswell

Hi Everyone,

No, none of the sails have the UV strips on them. Just one more thing I found odd.

Bladeswell

If someone was changing sails on a foil for racing, it wouldn't have a uv strip. No need, they dont leave the sails up. The uv strip would slow down the boat.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

DavidBuoy
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2016 : 05:28:37

I picked up a hank on 135 from National Sail Supply for $570. If I get a few years out of it i'll be happy.

http://nationalsail.com/catalina-sails/catalina-25-std-rig-sails/catalina-25-std-135-genoa.html

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2016 : 06:01:03

Can you find out what's what from Earle Wolfrom (forum name "rrick")?

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/20/2016 06:05:43

Bladeswell
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2016 : 08:13:26

Good morning Everyone,

Wow Dave, you're good. Earle Wolfrom is who I bought the boat from. I am truly impressed. Now that I think back to when I took possession of the boat, he gave a lot of extra loose stuff that was not currently installed on the boat. Some of which was a bundle of aluminum slats. I asked him what those were for and he said something about roller furling and I didn't inquire further. But I don't recall seeing anything like a furling drum. If those aluminum slats are the foil, should they be in separate pieces? I always thought that a foil would be 1 piece. But I have no experience with furling gear. Thanks again.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2016 : 08:40:25

Most metal foils come in sections that are riveted together during installation. Plastic foils, such as the CDI Flexible Furlers, come in big coils. You've got a furler--or part of one. You might still need a drum (for the bottom) and a swivel (for the top). A halyard retaining block on the front of the mast might also be recommended, or might already be up there.

(I'm not THAT good... I looked up the owners of your hull# in our Boat Search.)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/20/2016 08:44:23

Bladeswell
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2016 : 09:30:50

Hi Again Dave,

I do have a halyard block at the top and front of the mast but I had assumed it was for raising the spinnaker. Wow, you guys are sure taking me to school on furling gear. I will have to look through all the stuff that came with the boat to see what else I may have and not know about. Maybe the drum and some of the other gear may be there and I just didn't recognize them in a disassembled condition. Do you guys prefer the aluminum foil or the CDI type more? When I'm ready to go to ASA, they also have a spinnaker class which I need. Sure would be nice if they would teach me on my own boat. Thanks again.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Bladeswell
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2016 : 09:35:58

Hi Rob,

Wow, great price. About half what Ullman wants. Thanks for the tip.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2016 : 09:45:21

The jib halyard retaining block will be on the front a little below the mast-head. The halyard goes down through the block and then to the furler swivel that holds the head of the sail. The block's purpose is to keep the halyard from being parallel to the forestay as it attaches to the swivel, so it doesn't wrap around the stay instead of forcing the swivel to... umm... swivel. It has to be positioned on the mast so that it is above the swivel at full hoist, so it's pulling up and back toward the mast. (Tricky to describe.)

A spinnaker halyard block on a mast-head rig will more likely be on the mast-head or a "crane" attached to it.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Bladeswell
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2016 : 10:01:27

Thanks Again Dave,

So I am pretty sure that the block I have up there is the spinnaker halyard block. And it is attached to the masthead crane.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Bladeswell
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2016 : 14:37:22

Hello Again,

I just finished a bunch of research and have come to the conclusion that I need to stop being pig headed about wanting hank on sails and face reality. That reality being that I am 62 years old and will most likely be sailing single handed most of the time. So I probably have no business being up on the for deck changing head sails in rough conditions.
Okay, that being said, I found I can get a brand new 150% furling Genoa and a CDI FF4 furling system for just over $1500. Thats a lot less money than replacing 3-4 new hank on sails. See, give me time and I will see the light. LOL. Thanks Everyone.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2016 : 15:36:17

Roller furling is wonderful! When going out for a "sail to nowhere in particular" or on a blustery, gusty day, we'd often leave the mainsail cover on, pull out the genny, sail a nice reach out toward Long Island, turn around, reach home, turn on the outboard, pull the furling line, and we were all buttoned up! Nice power, very little heel in gusts, and while not "self-tacking", it was very little effort. (You want to do something that feels like sailing!

)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Peregrine
Admiral

Members Avatar

830 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2016 : 15:56:51

quote:
Originally posted by Bladeswell

Hello Again,

I just finished a bunch of research and have come to the conclusion that I need to stop being pig headed about wanting hank on sails and face reality. That reality being that I am 62 years old and will most likely be sailing single handed most of the time. So I probably have no business being up on the for deck changing head sails in rough conditions.
Okay, that being said, I found I can get a brand new 150% furling Genoa and a CDI FF4 furling system for just over $1500. Thats a lot less money than replacing 3-4 new hank on sails. See, give me time and I will see the light. LOL. Thanks Everyone.

Bladeswell

Just to help you on your way to a furler please know that racers do not use hank on sails.
They use head stay foils where the sail goes up a track just like the furler tracks (foils). Hank ons are the least efficient sails because the leading edge is not perfectly flat and sealed in a foil.
So when you are not partially furled your sail will be slicing into the wind much more efficiently than any hank on sail.
Obviously that will not be true when you partially furl the sail.

John Gisondi
Peregrine #4762

*

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2016 : 16:30:07

OK this is just my opinion but the C25 is a coastal cruiser. If you race against C25s only then yes its fun to set the boat up to be competitive but if you want to race against other brands then you should buy a fast boat for that class not a C25. There is a lot more then having hank ons involved to bring out the best in the C25 and even then your going to be frustrated. Just ask JimB a former member who after years of frustrating losses moved on to a more competitive boat. Put the furler on and you will never look back. Like I said, JMO.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2016 : 17:49:11

Indeed, a partially rolled up genoa is a less efficient foil. But my experience is that reefing the main first contributes more to comfortable sailing when you'll be overpowered with full sails. The "center of effort" of the genny is considerably lower than that of the main. The downsides to sailing on genny alone are somewhat reduced pointing and (in our case) a neutal helm, which is not my preference. With winds around 15-20, a reefed main--even a second (deep) reef--with a full genny can alleviate those things and maintain performance. It helps to move the sheet cars back to flatten the larger part of the genny. Partially rolling the genny with a full main does less for reducing heel, and negatively impacts performance more. (Of course, when you get to 30+ winds, things change--and we furled everything and headed for port. The roller helped!

)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/20/2016 17:53:05

Bladeswell
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2016 : 18:50:02

Hi all,

Thanks again for all of your input. I never had any intention to race. I guess I am just mostly a traditionalist. But as I said, it seems the wiser and safer thing for me to do is to go with the furling option. When I first started reading about furling head sails years ago, it seemed they had lots of problems. But as I said, that was years ago and with all things progress and new technologies make big differences between then and now. Thanks again.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Bladeswell
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2016 : 19:42:24

Hello Again,

Just finished reading through my PO's posts on this forum. He clearly states that the boat has or at least had an Alado furling system. So I will try to research those. Thanks guys.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
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