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Waste holding tank

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Akenumber
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USA
247 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/07/2016 : 16:26:17

I was wondering if anyone has had problems with sediment in their waste holding tank? I know rv guys are all very sensitive about the subject with their own cleaning techniques. My tank seems to fill up quicker than I would think it should.

Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2016 : 03:40:53

check vents are clear...

s/v No Worries, O'Day 28
PO Moe'Uhane - C25 SR/FK #1746

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2016 : 04:46:06

If you know how much the tank holds you could start with an empty tank then pour/flush that same amount of water into it to see if it holds that amount. It should be close if the tank is clean.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Akenumber
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247 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2016 : 05:46:56

Vents are clear. Not sure how much the oe tank holds. I think fresh water is 16g. So I would think the waste is about the same. Just wondering if anyone has had any known issues.

Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2016 : 07:18:55

quote:
Originally posted by Akenumber

...So I would think the waste is about the same.

Why?

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2016 : 10:29:43

Capacity is capacity regardless of the product. If the tank has gone long periods after use without a pumpout and rinse or had non-septic safe T.paper or other products flushed, then it can build up a hard residue than will not come out with a pumpout and rinse, and it could eventually amount to a significant volume. I only see four options if you have that problem and the remaining capacity is inadequate. 1. Drink less!

2. Add a septic system cleaner and let it sit for a week before pumping out. Rinse it with a strong detergent solution and copious amounts of water. It isn't likely to help, but it is cheap, inoffensive and easy. 3. Add an access port and clean the tank. That is a really offensive job, somewhat increases the chance for future odors/leaks but fairly inexpensive. 4. Replace the tank. A moderately offensive job that will solve the problem but is fairly expensive.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2016 : 14:34:23

From the manuals section.

quote:
HOLDING TANK

The optional holding tank is made from high density polypropylene plastic. The tank capacity is 14 U.S. Gallons. It is located under the forward end of the settee or dinette seat on the port side.

and this

quote:
Waste should not be stored for long periods of time. The tank should be emptied and flushed regularly.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

slim
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113 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2016 : 17:13:55

The best option is to replace the whole %$#$%^ mess with a nice small totally portable porta potty that the biggest problem you can have can be fixed in 10 minutes and 100 bucks.

Slim

P.S. I would have said bucket but i was thinking of the nice ladies reading this LOL

quote:
Originally posted by Dave5041

Capacity is capacity regardless of the product. If the tank has gone long periods after use without a pumpout and rinse or had non-septic safe T.paper or other products flushed, then it can build up a hard residue than will not come out with a pumpout and rinse, and it could eventually amount to a significant volume. I only see four options if you have that problem and the remaining capacity is inadequate. 1. Drink less! 2. Add a septic system cleaner and let it sit for a week before pumping out. Rinse it with a strong detergent solution and copious amounts of water. It isn't likely to help, but it is cheap, inoffensive and easy. 3. Add an access port and clean the tank. That is a really offensive job, somewhat increases the chance for future odors/leaks but fairly inexpensive. 4. Replace the tank. A moderately offensive job that will solve the problem but is fairly expensive.

1978 - C25 - standard rig - Fixed keel #1040

bigelowp
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1736 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2016 : 19:43:46

Ah -- and that is the endless conundrum we all face. My next project should be the plumbing -- head and sink. Many say just put a portapoti in BUT the boat was designed for a proper head and holding tank. Therefore, I tend to think that replacing with like is a better way to go. In my situation, where the head has been "not used" for close to a decade, I am leaning toward replacing the holding tank, head, and redoing the entire system. That said: For those who have removed a head/holding tank and all the plumbing and replaced with a portapoti -- has it been better? What are you missing from having the original plumbing?

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2016 : 21:01:29

No, no Porta poti. I will tell the admiral to drink less. Maybe I need to do a good series of flushes. I have just never heard of any major holding tank issues. But, like you said there is defiantly a possibly of over use. Maybe from the PO. He he . I think large swells and flushing can fix it. Thanks for all the input. Always appreciated.

Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2016 : 12:50:47

Buy this book:

http://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?53615/The+New+Get+Rid+of+Boat+Odors

Stu
1986 C34 #224 "Aquavite"
Cowichan Bay, BC Maple Bay Marina
(formerly San Francisco)
(formerly C25 #2459 "Capricorn Two")

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2016 : 13:54:06

I have this Sealand 711 head in my $+!nkp*+...

- Looks and sits like a proper "throne" with ceramic bowl.
- Pedal-operation is very easy to explain and use.
- Uses the boat's pressurized fresh water system.
- Pump-out and vent plumbing.
- 9.5 gallon integrated holding tank.
- Totally odor-free so far.
- A blast from a hose right through the bowl cleans the tank--I do it each fall.
- A Y-valve and mascerator can discharge outside of "the line"--mine is between Block Island and Montauk Point. (Not yet used.)

I don't know whether or how it would fit in the C-25 head area. It might not be adequate for extended cruising, but has been fine for two people over a weekend. I pump out only 2-3 times a season--YMMV.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/12/2016 14:03:06

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3754 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2016 : 17:40:30

Very nice Dave, but it is 7" taller than the standard head. It tempted me enough to look up the dimensions.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2016 : 05:49:56

Thanks for the book idea stu. I just ordered it. Hard to pass up good reference. I had no idea they made portable style heads you can use with a mascerator and a pump out. If it comes to it, dimentions permitting, I think that is one of the better ideas. Thankyou both for the help. Oh, I also ordered some heavy duty holding tank cleaner by happy camper. It had good reviews, so we will see.

Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN

Edited by - Akenumber on 04/13/2016 05:52:41

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2016 : 07:48:27

quote:
Originally posted by Dave5041

Very nice Dave, but it is 7" taller than the standard head. It tempted me enough to look up the dimensions.

Yup, although at about 20", the seat is about 2" taller than my newer "ergo" home toilet, which is comfortable for my tired, old knees, and reduces "splashing" from stand-up males... What I don't know is how it would be on the platform in the C-25 that I no longer own.

By the way, I wouldn't call the Sealand 711 "portable"--it is designed to be "permanently" attached and not to be carried off to be emptied. You can see one of the mounting holes toward the left front corner above. There are some Sealand and Thetford all-plastic, portable units with built-in water supplies and 5 gallon waste tanks that can optionally be plumbed for pumping out on deck. As I recall, their seats are a just few inches lower than the 711, and as far as I know they can't be hooked up to the boat's water supply.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/13/2016 07:51:28

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3754 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2016 : 09:39:51

That's what I discovered. My wife wouldn't want a flexing, plastic portapottie, but this one would be 27 inches to the seat mounted in the C-25 , plus about 4-5 inches for the platform. That would be pretty high for the admiral and not exactly comfortable for me. I'm still thinking electric to make her happy. They draw a lot of current, but the duration and frequency wouldn't have that much impact on my batteries. I rebuilt the pump on the existing one, but it is leaking fresh water again and will probably be replaced this year. The giant stainless steel holding tank that a previous owner installed under the V-berth will be going too. It will be nice to get rid of that mass in the bow.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2016 : 12:28:53

quote:
Originally posted by Dave5041

...but this one would be 27 inches to the seat mounted in the C-25 , plus about 4-5 inches for the platform...

I'm not sure what you're seeing... My owners's manual specs show 19-1/8" from the bottom of the tank to the top of the bowl. So that would put the seat surface at just about 20". But that would be on top of the C-25's platform. Mine is on a bit of a platform, too, since the sole isn't level in the head.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/13/2016 12:29:25

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3754 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2016 : 18:50:35

You're right, I thought I misread the diagram. I thought it was showing 20 inches from the top, but now I can't find the same page and suspect that I might have been looking at a different head. The 711 M28 is the same height as the Jabsco, but I would have to measure to see if the 19 inchish base would fit.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2016 : 21:03:30

Dave, do you have (or are you planning) pressure water? That's prerequisite for the 711. It's also pretty nice in the galley.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2016 : 21:36:06

I'm considering pressure water or a raw water system connected to a separate water source instead of a thruhull. Pressure water with an accumulator would be a major project in itself, but has much to recommend it. A flexible water bladder and one deck fitting would be pretty simple. One of the electric heads I'm considering has a fill/empty switch in addition to the flush button, the other only has a flush button. The 711 does have a fill system and would make the head/holding tank really easy but costs as much as an electric head. Do you think it flushes and rinses as well as an electric with a macerator. I could do the pressure system and add an accumulator later. Can you adjust the fill level by how long you hold the foot switch up?

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2016 : 07:12:57

quote:
Originally posted by Dave5041

...The 711 does have a fill system and would make the head/holding tank really easy but costs as much as an electric head.

...but one electric pump can also serve the whole boat.

quote:
Do you think it flushes and rinses as well as an electric with a macerator.

I don't know why not. Water swirls in and everything just falls directly into the tank--simple gravity--where your enzyme treatment breaks it down. A mascerator is not needed unless you're discharging overboard.

quote:
Can you adjust the fill level by how long you hold the foot switch up?

Yup. And how much you flush by how long you hold it down. It's very easy for guests.

At season-end, I empty the water tank, let the pump blow out the line to the head, call the free pump-out boat to my dock, and as he's pumping, hold the pedal down and blast the holding tank with a hose. Any sludge is removed. Then I run antifreeze through the whole system and finally pour a little more into the head tank.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/14/2016 07:17:47

Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2016 : 19:52:09

A 12 volt sure flow pump has a built in cut in/out switch and I haven't ever seen an accumulator to be nesessary. We use them on a lot of our trucks at work. Oh, and I should have substituted contained for portable. I kinda like the idea.

Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN

Edited by - Akenumber on 04/14/2016 19:54:06

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3754 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2016 : 20:39:05

The value of the accumulator is less cycling and noise. Small marine accumulators have around 0.5 gallon capacity, more than enough for a flush or hand wash. And no, it certainly isn't essential.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2016 : 21:34:13

The purpose of an accumulator that I'm aware of is to reduce pulsing from the pump. When I flush my head, the pump runs continuously until I stop flushing, as I suspect it would with an accumulator (maybe with a slight delay). The only pulsing is when I open a faucet only a fraction--full open is smooth. The pulsing doesn't bother me in the least, although it might be a little harder on the pump over time--I don't know.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2016 : 03:47:43

Modern pumps have eliminated or reduced pulsing to the point of being irrelevant. I have a Par Max and I don't notice any pulsing.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2016 : 20:03:30

I'll probably still go with an accumulator. Pump life has to be improved if the pump doesn't kick on every time you open a faucet or flush the head. I'm probably going with the 4 gal/min Parmax with a 0.5 gal accumulator. I won't get started until next month.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

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