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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2016 : 14:07:47

I think what Gary was referring to was that you might be able to find your answers as far as measurements in previous posts on the trailer topic. We are not trailer builders and the majority of Cat25's aren't trailered but it doesn't mean that the measurements for a trailer wasn't posted a few years ago. Sure if you've been on this forum for a few years you find out that the same topics and questions do come up over and over but that's what this forum is all about, Helping other new Cat owners out with their boats. Like all forums, Without questions it wouldn't exist.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2016 : 14:44:19

I know we've discussed trailer measurements several times, and I did a search but couldn't find it. We really should have the trailer measurements for the different keel types in our tech tips, so it will be permanently available. Maybe you'll write it up and submit it when you have gathered all the measurements and checked them for accuracy, James or Gary? I'm sure it will help someone down the road.

We don't worry much about thread drift. The members discuss what interests them. The more interested they are, the more actively they contribute, and that means we all have access to more, different points of view. IMO, some of our most interesting discussions come from thread drift.

Sometimes our members don't have the answers ready at hand. As in this case, they might have to wait until they have an opportunity to measure their trailer. Like Gary, someone usually will come through with the info you need.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2016 : 20:10:30

Where do the poster that post the towing capacity of my tow vehicle get there information? I cannot find that in the owners manual, Chilton's or any where on the internet?
It is confusing to read all ten + pages of search results from trailer search. Also when a poster uses the published weight data for a C22 but doubles the weight data for a C25 the logic is hard to follow.
Why when the published weight data on a C25 SK is given as 4150 why do post talk about the weight being 6k or even 7k? I seems to me the boat weight + trailer weight = towing weight. If the boat weighs 4150 my trailer weighs 1200 that is 5350 lbs. The boat will be dry, minus motor, rudder, hatches, and all movable interior objects.
I find at least one other poster trying to Trailer measurements dated 12/15. He did not receive answers either.
Thank you, James

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2016 : 09:19:24

As I noted in the post, the towing capacity was hard to find and of unknown reliability. I found the information on an RV forum after wading through a lot of "I towed" this or that massive load "without any problem" and settled on what seemed to be a reasonable owner posting a hard number. I did offer the few measurements from my trailer that might be relevant.

edit: I just searched "91 GMC Jimmy 4X4 V6 towing capacity" and waded through a lot of worthless hits. The various weights are what different people tow. We all travel differently. My weight was with my old 1400 or 1500 pound steel trailer. My new aluminum trailer is about 850 and my newer motor is about 35 pounds heavier.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Edited by - Dave5041 on 03/06/2016 09:32:18

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2016 : 09:45:59

Here's another one: http://blazerforum.com/forum/2nd-gen-s-series-1995-2005-tech-41/towing-capacity-61835/

seems about right. For whatever reason 3500 pounds seems to be pretty common for smaller trucks/SUVs

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2016 : 12:37:01

The tow vehicle is a GMC S 15 Jimmy 160 hp GVW 5100 lbs. The basic formula for tow capacity is (according to Chilton's) is HP x 35 - GVW = tow capacity. Chilton points out that gear ratios and load in vehicle have an effect.
160 x 35 = 5600 - 5100 = 500 lbs tow capacity. That would not pull my jon boat much less a C 22 or C 25. I do not see how that formula tells me anything. My S 15 door sticker does NOT give tow max.
So now to move up from a C 22 to a C 25 I got to buy a bigger stronger tow vehicle.
The gate is the tow vehicle. Who would of thought that?
I guess I've run out of options. Any body want a deal on a C 25? James

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2016 : 16:10:14

Renting a truck is an option unless you intend to tow regularly. The problem is that even Penske would not let me tow with a consumer rental. None of the big companies that I contacted would officially let me tow anything but their own trailers and dollies.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2016 : 16:14:22

I've also tried that. if you let them know you are gonna tow, your own trailer it's a no go. James

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1762 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2016 : 18:16:21

Hi James,

Years back (and several hard drive crashes ago) I took quite a few photos of my trailer with the boat on it. At the time I wrote down all the measurements and gave them to an Association member, but that piece of paper has disappeared ... 'sorry.

Nevertheless, many of the photos have a tape measure in them and you can read the measurements. Even the ones that aren't quite so clear can provide a pretty accurate estimate.

I found the photos I took on an old backup hard drive. I'd be willing to email them to you if you'd like to see them ... I think you would find them pretty helpful for dimensions and to see how the boat sits on the trailer.

I am sending you an email through this Forum. Sometimes the email feature doesn't work, so, if you don't get it, email me at buzzmaring at AOL dot com and I'll work on getting the photos to you.

BTW, welcome to the group! Don't be too quick to judge, even though it might be a bit frustrating when you have to wait for an answer, or endure unsolicited advice. This is a great group of sailors with a wealth of knowledge, and everyone is eager to help when they can. Of course, some of us don't always know the best answer, but that doesn't stop us from giving our opinion anyway!

Buzz Maring

~~Freya~~
C-25 SK/SR #68
Lake Dallas, TX

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2016 : 19:58:32

Hi Again James,

When I bought my C25 I didn't,(and still don't) have the right size tow vehicle. I was able to rent a GMC 1500 pick up from Uhaul with no problem. I had to tow it from Oxnard,Ca. to Chino,Ca. Nearly 80 miles I would guess. There are some respectable hills to go up and down along that route, but I took it easy and took my time, being unfamiliar with the towing characteristics of the boat. and as it happens, I am a professional truck driver. All went well with no surprises. So go see Uhaul. And the price was reasonable too. Best of luck.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
465 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2016 : 20:42:52

James:

I hope this helps. I pulled a tape under my trailer this morning, and this is what I found.

First, I secured the tape so the end was even with the center of the hitch (what would be the center of the ball when it's engaged). This is an arbitrary starting point, in that other trailers may have longer or shorter tongues (my next one will have a good 3 or 4 more feet up front, or maybe a tongue extension).

From that point to an approximate plumb line down from the stem (I didn't take the time to level the trailer, so this is very approximate) is about 36".

I have a roller trailer with 64 "wobble-rollers" on a series of arms, but there's also a transverse roller that the vee of the bow rides up on, to transfer some weight to the tongue. That roller is 87" aft of the hitch ball.

The transverse centerline between the two axels is 210" aft of the center of the ball.

The only place on the hull that I could get a good measurement was the fitting where the keel cable connects to the keel. When the boat is secured for travel the keel gets lowered (about two turns on the winch) until it sits on a tray between the transverse frame members of the trailer, and in that position the cable attachment fitting is plainly visible (it should be visually checked periodically). This point was found to be 249-1/2" from the center of the ball. That puts it 39-1/2 inches aft of the transverse centerline between the axels.

Having said all this, I want to make it clear that this is probably not optimal. I have not towed this outfit very far, although I have twice had it on the freeway without incident. I haven't checked the tongue weight, but this would vary substantially depending on how the boat is loaded (my Tohatsu 9.8 and 15.5 gallons of gas used to pretty nearly lift the tongue before I added the second anchor and 40' of 5/16" proof coil up front). The conventional wisdom to have a substantial percentage of the total weight of boat+trailer resting on the hitch (without taking time to look it up I think it's on the order of 10%). For your one-time haul it may not be too important if you're careful and patient. But if you wind up with a negative tongue weight, the uplift ADDS to the actual weight of boat and trailer to increase the weight on the tires.

I'd probably be willing to try what you're considering, James, but I'd bring along a floor jack, a lot of cribbing, a pair of sturdy jack stands, a spare set of hub bearings, my Honda EU200i generator and my DeWalt electric impact wrench, and a full set of tools. And a credit card with plenty of room available on the balance ;-)

With luck the haul will be uneventful. If not it will be an adventure you'll enjoy sharing with friends... after its over.

Best of luck!

- Lee

BTW, if removing the keel first is an option (there have been excellent posts here on how) that would make the trailer decision a lot easier.

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2016 : 21:57:05

U-haul does have some box trucks with a class III hitch receiver in addition to their bumper hitch. That is what my buyer rented when he moved the boat from my lake to his. It makes for a pretty long rig, easily 60 ft., but you'll hardly know the boat is back there.
For vehicle rental, I would also check with van rental places that rent 12 passenger vans to groups who need to pull a trailer of gear on a mission trip.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2016 : 06:22:42

Buzz Maring, Bladeswel, Lee Panza, dmpilc,
Thanks to you 4, My frustration was showing, and you read it right. I have got to get my new old boat home to get her ready for my bucket list cruise. Now if anyone has a tow vehicle that I could beg, borrow or rent Or that wants to be a contributor to my dream let me know. It's a 700 mile tow from Anderson SC to NW Arkansas then to launch in Kentucky river near Paducha KY.
I picked the C 25 after much research and a lot of sailing time on my C 22. I am going to take an extended "Great Loop" cruise, as long as two years, yep 2 yrs, or longer. I will include the Canadian Canal system, Montreal on the St Lawrence and the Severn system. The C 25 has features that made it the choice, Shallow draft SK, single handed step / unstep mast with an A frame on the water, live aboard room and storage, low power requirement, sail-able and low cost.
At 73 I don't have time to waste, gotta get going. Once underway I can relax, take it slow and steady and enjoy the ride.
Thanks to you and all posters, for the input and help. I'll post my progress and boats log on here as I go.
Any suggestions on doing that? I'm thinking a thread titled "S.V. Grace Loopier Cruise".
James

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2016 : 13:39:50

Sounds fantastic! That should be a great thread in our Cruising forum--the only issue might be having other people's comments interspersing your periodic posts. An alternative might be to keep a blog somewhere else and give us a link to it--then when your journey is over and the blog is complete, you could copy it into a topic here.

Sorry if my original tow vehicle question/comments scrambled things up for you... I was just wondering if you were fully aware of how much more boat the C-25 was than the C-22. It's certainly more than the extra 3' would suggest to many people. Some of us refer to the C-22 as a trailer-sailer, while the C-25 is merely "transportable"--two different categories. The only SUV I'd likely use to tow a C-25 is a Suburban, Yukon XL, or equivalent. But I've been called a wimp by more than a few...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/07/2016 13:42:01

jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2016 : 09:52:32

I think having "others comments" could be of value. There are a lot of places, things and techniques I don't know about. Others perspectives and experiences might open up new avenues. That sort of thread drift is different than getting replies to specific questions sidetracked by left over arguments and off topic commentary. However, maybe folks on this forum don't have interest in that type of thread. After all nobody but you and I have commented.
Thanks James

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2016 : 10:13:45

Cruise reports are popular here, especially when accompanied by photos or video, and especially in the winter, when we northerners can only enjoy sailing vicariously. Also, it's easy to convert those reports into a Mainsheet article. I agree that comments can be useful. They're usually appreciative, and sometimes provide an interesting and unique perspective.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2016 : 10:32:18

quote:
I have got to get my new old boat home to get her ready for my bucket list cruise. Now if anyone has a tow vehicle that I could beg, borrow or rent Or that wants to be a contributor to my dream let me know. It's a 700 mile tow from Anderson SC to NW Arkansas then to launch in Kentucky river near Paducha KY.

I don't know if this will be of any help to you, but a quick CL search in my area turned up these transport guys:

https://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/boa/5427677240.html]

https://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/5456973194.html

https://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/5439240934.html

Maybe you can find one local to you. I don't have any experience with any of these types of movers or the cost but a couple of calls might get your boat where you want it.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

jmczzz
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2016 : 12:26:13

i called one in SC he quoted $950.to take it 264 miles to Charleston SC. I didn't even ash about 700 miles to my home. I'll try some you found. thanks, james

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2016 : 12:32:45

All the trailer measurement info and pictures I have gathered so far are in a folder located on Googles server. I would be glad to share (give access) that folder to anyone. Or if a forum Capt wants to download to add to the forums tech info.
Just ask me for the link. I would publish it here if an admin person says it is ok.
James

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2016 : 15:33:08

If your trip brings you through Nashville, TN, depending on when you make the trip, I might be able to swing the time to travel with you and help with pickup and launching it in KY. That's not too far from here. I won't have time until after 4/15 because of tax season, and a few weekends from then through May are already booked. Part of that includes going to the C-22 Nationals in Ft. Walton.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

jmczzz
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2016 : 16:09:50

Thanks David, I looks like launch in KY will be late summer/ early fall so as to get down to G. Coast / FL for winter '16-17. I keep you posted. James

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2016 : 18:38:54

Sometimes cradle specs will help you out. I recently set up a trailer for a fin keel and I was able to find some cradle specs on Google and images. Helped me out a lot.

Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN

jmczzz
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2016 : 18:40:10

thanks I think I found those. James

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2016 : 04:42:26

Convert trailer from a C-22 to a C-25 trailer update.
Purchased a matching 3500 lb axle fitted with electric brakes, tandem hanger hardware and leaf springs to convert trailer to tandem. Further mods will be additional 4 inch channel iron welded lengthwise adjacent to each inner side rail. These will go from the rear cross member all the way forward to the bow chock at the tongue. These will increase and reinforce the load carry capacity plus prevent springing in the trailer's forward area when loaded. The existing axle will be relocated in the process. That plus the bow chock moved forward so that the C-25 center of gravity will be located 13 1/2 inches from the chock and centered on the space between the new tandem axle set up. Several other minor welding / cutting mods will be removing the old keel roller fittings to allow placement of a lower keel support bunk board and re-positioning the tongue jack.
Bunks will have longer mounting post fitted so as to make the bunks adjustable to accommodate any increase in height needed.
Two steel wheels and ST205/75/R14 radial tires will be fitted to the new axle hubs matching the existing equipment.
Thanks again to all contributors of input for trailer specs and pictures.
>
To all those contributors to the tow vehicle discussions:
I am considering a couple of options; converting a F350 with a 7.3 c i diesel, ex-u haul 24 ft van with dual rear wheels to a flat bed or a GMC Suburban 4x4, w/ 350 V8. The F350 will need the van box removed and a flat bed fitted. The GMC will need a trans cooler added. Both will need a controller for the electric brakes installed, tune ups, trans filters and fluid changed, cooling systems flushed, brakes and suspensions checked and worn parts replaced.
All input appreciated.
Thanks, James

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2016 : 06:35:13

quote:
Originally posted by jmczzz

To all those contributors to the tow vehicle discussions:...

I guess that would include me...

Sounds like some much better options than a mid-sized SUV. Good plans all around!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/17/2016 06:35:55

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