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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Swing Keel cable attachment

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JamesBird
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/19/2015 : 10:57:07

Hello, I'm new to the forum and what a great place for information. I have a question. I Just purchased a 1979 Cat25. The keel cable is attached in a way I haven't seen before. Is this something Catalina did or another owner. PO said it was like that when he bought in in 2007. My question, is this setup ok? Thanks

Jim
Danvers, MA
79 Cat25/SR/SK/(1185)

Edited by - JamesBird on 12/19/2015 11:17:06

RickR
1st Mate

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USA
25 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2015 : 13:09:26

Hey Jim,
Mine is an 81. My pin is toward the rear. Your's looks close to the pivot pin...I've attached a link where you can see mine. (can't figure out yet how to post a pic.

https://www.facebook.com/1669093126665727/photos/pb.1669093126665727.-2207520000.1450554033./1669108549997518/?type=3&theater

RickR
Jamestown, NY
81 C25/SK/SR/Trad #2668
"Vind Dansor"

JamesBird
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2015 : 13:46:23

Rick, The picture is of the rear end of the keel and the pivot pin is far to the right. That round disc is the Zinc Anode.

quote:
Originally posted by RickR

Hey Jim,
Mine is an 81. My pin is toward the rear. Your's looks close to the pivot pin...I've attached a link where you can see mine. (can't figure out yet how to post a pic.

https://www.facebook.com/1669093126665727/photos/pb.1669093126665727.-2207520000.1450554033./1669108549997518/?type=3&theater

Jim
Danvers, MA
79 Cat25/SR/SK/(1185)

RickR
1st Mate

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USA
25 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2015 : 13:59:28

AH, that makes sense....

RickR
Jamestown, NY
81 C25/SK/SR/Trad #2668
"Vind Dansor"

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2015 : 15:06:53

I can only compare to my 84 boat and pictures of other boats I have seen. From your picture it looks like the original fitting that screws into notch in the trailing edge of the keel rusted out and a PO (prior owner) drilled a new hole through the keel and attached a shackle for the cable connection. It might be even stronger than the original setup, I can't tell. I would be sure to inspect it annually, especially if you keep her in salt water.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

JamesBird
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2015 : 16:13:23

Thanks dave. It does look pretty robust but I'll be sure to check it each season. I'm changing the cable as I don't know it's history.

Jim
Danvers, MA
79 Cat25/SR/SK/(1185)

RickR
1st Mate

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USA
25 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2015 : 17:40:20

Jim,
I'd change the ball too and as I understand it, if your winch drum is the small one it wouldn't hurt to upgrade it as well. CD offers the cable kit that includes everything needed. (except winch) just my 2 cents...

RickR
Jamestown, NY
81 C25/SK/SR/Trad #2668
"Vind Dansor"

capted
1st Mate

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39 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2015 : 19:15:50

What is not so clear from the attached photos is that in the original installation the keel wire is connected to one 1/2 inch eyebolt screwed into the keel. That's always made me nervous, especially since the eye of my bolt failed, allowing the keel to crash down. Your installation is about what I was thinking of doing, so that there is very little possibility of failure. All the components are open to inspection and sturdier than the original. I say keep the setup, and just check it, and the cable, once a year.

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2015 : 22:14:04

Its a bail, could be very strong but could fail long before the correct fitting would.

Frank Hopper

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2015 : 06:11:23

The biggest potential problem I can see from the retrofit solution is that if the bale is loose on the pin, unlike the original design, premature wear from the keel and cable both moving around while underway could be possible.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

JamesBird
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2015 : 10:46:16

yes, I'm thinking that also. I tried to remove the bolt yesterday to check for wear going through the keel. It's SS but I couldn't turn it. I fear it's rusted in. I'm going to try some penetrating oil and heat. The last thing I want to do is break it off.

Jim
Danvers, MA
79 Cat25/SR/SK/(1185)

Jay Schkloven
1st Mate

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USA
84 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2016 : 11:38:21

The issue I have with the setup would be there is no swing back and forth as the keel moves up and down. This could put extra tension on the swage. The old system and the newer one allow for this movement. I would keep a close eye on the cable end.

JamesBird
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2016 : 19:03:11

The "Boom Bail" isn't mounted tightly to the keel. It moves easily fwd and aft approximately about an inch. I'm having trouble removing the bolt to check for wear. it's really rusted into the keel. Tried PB, heat and hitting the bolt head with a hammer. Any suggestions?

Jim
Danvers, MA
79 Cat25/SR/SK/(1185)

jduck00
Captain

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USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2016 : 20:07:15

Lots and lots of heat. When I removed the original bolt from mine, I had to use an acetylene torch to get it hot enough. Cast iron is a great heat sink. Little different situation, but same thought. I say you're already vested in getting it out, so keep going. I just finished a 2 month repair after having the keel free fall. It will be worth the peace of mind even if the bolt turns out ok. Worse case, you could start drilling.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

JamesBird
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2016 : 08:53:49

Thanks Jeremy. I'll give it a shot when the snow stops. Been snowing all morning!

Jim
Danvers, MA
79 Cat25/SR/SK/(1185)

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2016 : 09:07:10

quote:
The last thing I want to do is break it off.

Why not, I'd get a good set of sockets and breaker bars on that bolt and try to break it off. They do sell new bolts.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

JamesBird
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2016 : 10:51:03

yeah but then I'd have to drill out the old bolt or drill a new hole in the keel for the new bolt. How hard is it to drill cast iron?

Jim
Danvers, MA
79 Cat25/SR/SK/(1185)

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2016 : 14:10:59

With the head or nut broken off I can't see it being that hard to drive the bolt out with a sledge hammer and pin. A good socket and a breaker bar on one side will probably spin the bolt anyway then with 2 sockets and breaker bars you can probably just snap the bolt then drive it out. Another alternative is to get a chisel between the bolt head and boom bail. Get a cut into it then use a Saws-All with a metal cutting blade to cut the head off. Third alternative is to use a cut off saw to cut the head off. The cast iron has probably rusted. When it rusts it swells up and that is what has a good grip on the bolt, But its only rust and just needs some heavy persuasion. To try and drill out a SS bolt that size would be very difficult. I'm guessing its a 1/2' or 5/8" bolt? I'm also thinking that if its been there since at least 2007 then its stood the test of time and is strong enough to leave the set up the way it is. The cast iron would wear before the SS bolt.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 01/18/2016 10:31:59

JamesBird
1st Mate

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68 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2016 : 07:21:57

Good suggestions. I'll give them a try when the weather gets a little warmer. It's 12 degrees today with blowing snow.

Jim
Danvers, MA
79 Cat25/SR/SK/(1185)

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3754 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2016 : 17:49:36

The only question I had was if the bail could pivot, and you've answered that. The bail following the direction of load limits bending loads, keeping it loaded in tension. Your bolt is loaded in shear. You can't get much stronger. The standard system loads the bolt in tension, not the best for a bolt. The only thing holding the keel on is the shear strength of the rust prone cast iron threads.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2016 : 20:03:47

Since it appears that you have settled in for a long winters nap, I would, at least once a day and more if home, heat the cast iron keel around the bolt nut and then spray PBblaster on the bolt head side. This should make the blaster get sucked in toward the nut side. After doing the heat treatment take your hammer and bang on the head, while continuing to apply heat on the nut side. Then spray on the blaster and bang more. This will take a while, but it should eventually loosen the bolt. When I worked in the cargo ship industry this is the way we removed large bolts rusted in our cargo ship holes.
Good Luck

Frog and The General

C250, Pretty Penny II, #743
FLEET 25
Coronado 15, M-Cube, #3316

JamesBird
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2016 : 11:40:51

Well, I tried a few more times over the last few weekends with the heat, PB and a 4 pound mini sledge. The nut broke off taking a 1/2 inch length of bolt with it. Went to the bolt head side, put a six sided socket on it and sheared it off. The bolt revealed itself as a full threaded one (no wonder I couldn't remove it. Funny, everything looked fine, no wear on either the bail holes or bolt threads. Better to know than to worry about it. So now I need to drill out the old SS bolt.

I understand the best bit for that is a cobalt one? I'll keep you all posted.

Jim
Danvers, MA
79 Cat25/SR/SK/(1185)

Edited by - JamesBird on 02/03/2016 11:44:35

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3754 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2016 : 07:47:49

SS is not fun to drill, even with the coated alloy bits. I would try driving it out with the sledge and a good sized drift/punch first, especially if the cast iron isn't threaded. Also, consider drilling a new hole in the cast iron, much easier, if you get tired of fighting the SS. Over drilling and sleeving the hole with bronze, not brass,or stainless tubing and epoxy would make future disassembly a benign affair.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

JamesBird
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2016 : 13:14:59

Thanks Dave.

Jim
Danvers, MA
79 Cat25/SR/SK/(1185)

Boomeroo
Navigator

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Australia
128 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2016 : 03:59:07

Hi ,my swing keel has a similar princple cable attachment but it uses a standard galvanised shackle then a standard ss shackle to the cable which has a simple swagged eye in the end of the cable . Comes apart after 2 years to change cable which is cheap and made locally.
Been over 6 years with no problems in salt water.

Graeme Bishop boomeroo Australia
C25 SK

JamesBird
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2016 : 06:14:55

That might be a better solution than what I have. Do you have a picture of it?

Jim
Danvers, MA
79 Cat25/SR/SK/(1185)

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