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New Main Sail @ Annapolis boat show

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DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/11/2015 : 17:13:12

Finally commited and purchased a new sail at the sailboat show which has been on my wanted list for a while. Went around to 8 or so lofts and discussed sails and got quotes. Surprised myself and went with a less likely choice than I thought at Bacon sails in Annapolis. Sails are made overseas as with most lofts but they were super friendly and knowledgeable(not all places were). I had quotes all the way up to $1500 all of which were the standard crosscut Dacron. It came down to Ullman and Bacon. Ullman would match the sale price at Catalina Direct (around $900) and Bacon who we ultimately went with was $590. Bacon was soo low that I figured it was worth a shot and I've had friends purchase new sails from them with good experiences. So I'm really excited and will follow up with my experiences and the quality. Enjoy!

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2015 : 03:35:02

did you get their version of the stack pack?

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2015 : 20:28:33

quote:
Originally posted by dasreboot

did you get their version of the stack pack?

Nope, just sticking with sail ties.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2015 : 13:00:33

quote:
Bacon who we ultimately went with was $590.

Thats almost an unbelievable price. Hope it's not made out of old gym shorts. Does that include a reef point,Insignia and numbers?

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

jaydon
Navigator

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USA
156 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2015 : 14:19:26

Hi Rob
How about letting us know how the sail is when you get it?
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2015 : 06:22:02

<< Does that include a reef point,Insignia and numbers? >>

I got a similar price several years back from Atlantic Sail Traders. One reef and no numbers or insignia. ( I added a stick on ) The sail now needs one repair, my only gripe is the trailing edge folds up and every time I look at it I think the trailing edge is spoiling the wind.. But it is a fine mainsail for my lake usage and certainly fit my budget at the time. I'd buy one like it again given the situation. Nothing wrong with the sail, I kinda like dealing with a lighter main.

However I must say I do look forward to buying an Ullman or whatever, a heaver sail just to see how it behaves on this boat in my conditions. I sail in a lot of "storms" or fronts moving through and I'd love have mine cut to the first reef or buy another shorter mainsail.

This image is from 5/2013

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Edited by - redeye on 10/16/2015 06:26:25

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2015 : 07:23:25

At National Sail Supply, a std rig mainsail (Rolly Tasker?), std battens, rope foot, leech line, one reef, is $565, insignia $45, sail numbers $6 each digit per side. If your $590 sail was without numbers, then the two are comparable. If your deal included insignia and numbers, then congratulations, good deal!

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3367 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2015 : 08:49:36

No doubt, a main sail costing in the $500+ range is a good deal !

But you know that 3 main factors that determine price are custom or off the shelf, if from one of the big sailmakers that add dollars on to the cost due to name/reputation(ie. North, Doyle, Quantum) and lastly and the one that surprisingly few check into is the Dacron weave/thread used in making the sail. Most sails are made either from Challenge matl or Dimension Polyant. When you review the 5 quality grades of Dacron cloth sold by Challenge, there is quite difference in the resistance to stretch...and it takes anywhere from 3-8 years or so for stretch to materialize into a blown out sail. Those that sail almost always in light winds and infrequently sail, the best way to go is off the shelf, not a sailmaker from the big 3 and a sailcloth that is not of the higher cost low stretch Dacron weaves. However, those that sail frequently and sometimes in heavier breezes, at least some attention should also be given to the 10lb and 50lb stretch curves that at least Challenge makes available. It is at least an eye opener and the customer is at least better informe dbefore making a decision.

Having said all that, many on the Forum in past discussions have had success with many off the shelf, inexpensive sails by the mfrs mentioned in the recent postings, above. Just that it puzzles me why very few consider reviewing the sailcloth grades offered by the sailmakers before making a decision. I based that on very few ever mentioning the sailcloth that they bought. After all, you are mostly buying sailcloth and there are only 2 or 3 mfrs that provide the sailcloth to the majority of the sailmakers.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1519 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2015 : 12:18:28

Ten years ago when I bought my 1978 C-25 it was in ok condition, but came with a 6-month old Ullman main and a six-month old Ullman 110 jib along with a 2-year-old Honda 9.9 outboard. These sails have kept their shape nicely over this time, including lots of times in heavy wind. So I have the luxury of believing that high-quality sails are critical on the Chesapeake Bay.

The boat I bought also had an unused pop-top cover, a new cabintop-companionway cover, a new tiller cover, and a new sail cover. It had a storm jib and a gennaker and sock, too. I was able to live with the shredded tan-brown plaid cushion covers on the settees for a while!

I couldn't resist the boat at a price of only $4500.

At the other end of the spectrum, my friend with a 1980 C-25 SR/SK in East Greenwich on the Narragansett Bay, however, still uses his 35-year old blown-out main for trips all around the bay and to Block Island and Cuttyhunk/Martha's Vineyard and has lots of fun!!! He marvels at my "new" equipment whenever he visits. His reasoning is that he understands the limits of his equipment and how to use it best.

In any case, congratulations on your new mainsail purchase and may the new sail give you years of great sailing with family and friends!!!

JohnP
1978 C25 SR/FK "Gypsy"
Mill Creek off the Magothy River, Chesapeake Bay
Port Captain, northern Chesapeake Bay

Edited by - JohnP on 10/16/2015 12:23:50

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2015 : 16:09:08

It is challenge 6.5oz with insignia, reef, 2+2 battens. I've been sailing with the original main since I've owned the boat and anything would really be an improvement. If I get 5 years out of the sail at that price, I'll be a happy sailor. At that point I can reassess where I am with the boat and if a "top of the line" makes sense for me. If not, and I happen to move on or move up in size, a 5 year old main is actually a selling point despite the brand (if it's not trashed).

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2015 : 19:28:53

If you take care of your sails then for most of us "top of the line" is not worth the price delta. If you are heavily into racing, or plan to sail offshore then maybe. My 2007 Ullman sails are still like new.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2015 : 08:16:02

Just got back from the loft and the sail looks great. They are going to have the slugs (3/8" right?) sewn on, and numbers put on and ready for me Monday. Ready for a good fall sailing season!!

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2015 : 14:03:58

John P had a great posting putting into perspective how another sailor viewed utilizing his sails vs those that buy higher end sails. Also, David mentioned an important point regarding a sort of 5 year plan. Many sailors/boaters may only keep a boat for 5 years !

Another consideration I had was that my old sails were definitely blown out and this was quite niticeable and bothersome to me not because I race, though, you know what they say....if you are the only one out, then you are day-sailing/cruising but as soon is there is another sailboat out, then you are racing. Blown out sails are real bothersome to me because of the river waters that I sail. Especially when the wind is light and within 1-2 hours of low tide, I have to a great extent stick to the channel if sailing south, down the river. With blown out sails, you cannot make as efficient headway if you have to do significant tacking in a channel and possibly contending with the tide against you and some or a lot of motorboat/sightseeing boat traffic. So, in this instance,, getting the most out of sailing close to the wind is of great benefit. For those not racing and/or in greater bodies of water, a significantly stretched or blown out sail.....may not be that noticeable or bothersome.

Then again a lot is in the eyes of the beholder. When I was buying my new sails about 8 years or so ago, my spouse remarked, "What's wrong with the old sails ?

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

jaydon
Navigator

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USA
156 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2015 : 14:41:13

Rob, looks like a great sail. A question, did you measure the boat, measure an old sail or bring your old one in.
Just wondering as I see you must be close by and i'm up in RI.
Do they have a 'standard' for Catalina 25's? Did they work from the boats standard P & E measurements?
I'm really interested in one of their sails.
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2015 : 15:19:04

quote:
Originally posted by jaydon

Rob, looks like a great sail. A question, did you measure the boat, measure an old sail or bring your old one in.
Just wondering as I see you must be close by and i'm up in RI.
Do they have a 'standard' for Catalina 25's? Did they work from the boats standard P & E measurements?
I'm really interested in one of their sails.
Jay

Monday when we raise it and take further measurements I will certainly let you know. Yes, they do have a standard for our boats. I have tons of room in my haul, sliding gooseneck, and no bimini so I feel like I should be safe. We'll see.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

Edited by - DavidBuoy on 10/17/2015 15:24:08

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2015 : 18:24:20

Love it! Sail is amazing and it blows my mind actually being able to control shape with the outhaul! Soo crispy and amazing shape. Money well spent. Tack was a little low being a loose footed sail so I need a 90 degree shackle for it but took it for some sea trials and I'm so excited for this fall sailing season. I will grab some pictures when we've got it out in the light and will follow up after some further experience.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

Captain Max
1st Mate

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USA
87 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2015 : 18:42:51

I was looking online at bacon and could only see used sails, do you have to call for new sails?

Captain Max
"Wyvern"
84 Cat 25 FK
Bayview Marina
Dallas Tx Area

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2015 : 18:59:53

quote:
Originally posted by Captain Max

I was looking online at bacon and could only see used sails, do you have to call for new sails?

I would suggest you call and talk to them. You can learn a lot by talking to a sailmaker about the options available and by asking for their recommendations. But, I think you can also go to their website and click on "Sails," and then click on "Bacon Sail Quoter."

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2015 : 18:28:10

Well we've had it out 3 times now and so far it has performed great. 1st time right after we put it on the boat 1-3 knots, not much to see but it was still good. 2nd time 20kts gusting 25. Just the full main up beating to the wind the whole way fighting a strong current. Boat made slow headway as expected but really stayed on its feet impressively. Outhaul and vang tight and for once wasn't bouncing between getting knocked down and going to irons. Could actually get the boat in it's groove. 3rd time, just got back in. A gentile and refreshing 5kts with warm temps slowing cruising around Annapolis in the dark with the moon covered. The boat did great in the sometimes faint breeze and it was easy to maintain steerage even through the mooring field in the harbor. I'm really happy with it so far and am looking forward to as many fall cruising days as possible!

From tonight:

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2015 : 19:16:12

Another shot of the sail.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2015 : 18:36:11

Your pics are fantastic! Regarding the sail, the proof in the pudding is after three to five years -- if the sails reasonably maintained it should still seem as fresh as when you bought it. I agree that many are into the "five year plan" some of us are long term owners -- it all is subjective. Just enjoy your new sail as long as it is, well, new!

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2015 : 19:42:04

Very nice sail, and well trimmed too!

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2015 : 20:17:25

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

Very nice sail, and well trimmed too!

Keep in mind, the out haul is well out as the winds were so light. I takes a better foil shape when the breeze pipes up and it gets tension.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2015 : 07:46:59

Pardon me if I'm having a brain-f@rt, but what's the line from the boom end up to about the first batten pocket? It that the out-haul when the sail is reefed? (Seems a little high for that...)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/31/2015 07:47:54

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2015 : 07:58:12

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

Pardon me if I'm having a brain-f@rt, but what's the line from the boom end up to about the first batten pocket? It that the out-haul when the sail is reefed? (Seems a little high for that...)

I wondered about that, too, but I think it's a topping lift, distorted by the camera lens, making it look like it doesn't run to the masthead.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2015 : 11:08:23

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

...I think it's a topping lift, distorted by the camera lens, making it look like it doesn't run to the masthead.

I thought about that, and if the TL was slack, it could look like that. But it looks like there's some attachment hardware at the leech. Maybe not... Also, the reefing reinforcement goes up to that area.

Looking closer, there's apparently a clew for the outhaul just above the reefing clew, so the out-haul can be detached below and re-attached when reefed, for loose-foot control. The point in question is slightly above that...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/31/2015 11:18:34

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