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Bringing down the stick

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DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/09/2015 : 20:31:56

After being extremely neglected for the past couple months due to the purchase and relocation to a new home, DB will finally be getting some deserved attention this weekend. Have some buddies who are going to help me muscle the mast down, then it's up to me to replace everything. Mast wiring, navigation/deck light, anchor light, sheaves, blocks, halyards, mast step, etc. I am going to wing most of it as I believe i already possess most of the parts and tools necessary, not really sure about the rigging though. If I should mark the turn buckles where they are with paint or something and if I need new cotter pins etc.

Hopefully can get this all taken care of so we're one step closer to being back out there.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2015 : 21:11:02

Your wife's nail polish with its little brush works nicely for marking the turnbuckles. New cotter pins are a no-brainer--they're soft metal, and cheap.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/09/2015 21:14:13

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3367 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2015 : 03:59:48

Generally, you should not re-use cotter pins but I have re-used them many times on things like my lawnmower, snow blower, etc. It sounds like you are not replacing the rigging but everything else. For those that keep their boats in saltwater, the rigging should probably should be replaced if it is older than say 12-14 years, maybe even sooner. Inspections do not always spot what is happening just inside the turnbuckle, though, inspecting that area for any broken wires is the obvious thing to do. The thing with rigging is that by the time most of us get around to changing the rigging (ie. 10, 12...20+ years or so), everything should be changed - The cotter pins and the turnbuckles. Also, rigging attachment points need to be checked out thoroughly for any hint of a crack. Also a good time to potentially replace the spreader boots if they look like they need replacement or will in the semi-near future.

I had my mast re-wired years ago and went with a photo-diode LED Anchor light (turns off when the sun comes up). I had a visiting marina mechanic do the mast re-wiring pier-side. He dropped the mast and laid it on the boat, partially blocking the main dock. He kind of got burnt out with the job, partially because of the boat movement while working, but wound up replacing all the wiring fine, installing the new anchor light and a new steaming/deck combo light and hooked up to the existing cabin top wiring connector (which he indicated should really be replaced). However, the wiring was not hooked to the right connectors since when I turned on my Nav lights, it actually turned on something else (ie. steaming light). I then changed out, myself, the deck connector and re-wired inside the boat from the deck connector to a new switch panel I installed. I got all the switches to work correctly. (Details and photos on my website.)

In regards to the rigging - I had that done about 2 years ago. I decided to not do it myself. I went with Atlantic Rigging out of Annapolis, MD. I knew that a few rigging specialists had booths at the annual Fall Annapolis Sailboat Show and generally offered show specials. I discussed with Atlantic Riggers if they would be able to come down to the Washington, DC waterfront to replace my rigging. We then discussed rigging options. Bottom line was that I went with a similar turnbuckle as the existing ones which was the recommendation based on cost. Atlantic made up most of the rigging in their Annapolis store and then a fantastic rigger came down and installed my rigging, pier-side, with mast up ! Depending on the CDI furling rig foil design, sometimes that can cause huge issues since the earlier designs (with separate sections) the foil potentially would snap when they replaced rigging but my foil was one piece and was not an issue for him. He made the job look easy and that was with the mast up !

I told the installer that I had new mast blocks for replacing the worn out blocks (at base of mast) for the running rigging internal to my mast but I could not get the screws off of the old blocks and was afraid that I would strip them if I tried any longer. He had a portable impact screwdriver and easily was able to replace the blocks for me at no addl charge. I forget what the rigging matl and labor to replace cost (it was about 2 years ago) but eplacing the blocks was only a 10 minute job.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 04/10/2015 04:06:05

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2015 : 04:49:02

Standing rigging will have to wait another year. Like you say it looks great, but I have no idea the time its been up there. Unfortunately, it is sort of out of the picture right now. Anyone know the approximate size of cotter pins I need? I want to make sure I've got everything I need when I get down there.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2015 : 05:23:06

Tuning a rig sounds intimidating, but it isn't difficult at all, and, if you learn how to do it, you'll never again have to fret over the prospect of replacing a stay or taking the mast down to replace a masthead light bulb. I'll be back in the Bay area for the summer in about two weeks, and would be happy to meet you and any other C25 sailors, and show anyone interested how to tune their C25 rig. It should take 1/2 hour or less to tune it (a little longer to explain it and answer questions). Let me know if anyone is interested.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2015 : 06:37:08

Just to drop the mast you don't have to take the buckles apart. You only have to loosen the buckles enough to pull the pins. 5-8 turns should do it so just count how many turns for each buckle, Write it down then retighten them the same amount of turns when you put the mast up. This isn't tuning but will put the rig back to where it was before you dropped the mast.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 04/10/2015 06:39:23

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2015 : 10:36:34

Steve,

Im interested. I really need to rake the mast back a bid to reduce some of the leeward helm.Let me know when youre around.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

pearson39b
1st Mate

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93 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2015 : 11:00:24

If you dislike cotter pins as much as I do, there's an alternative my rigger suggested for a previous sailboat. It's TIG wire, which is also known as stainless steel welding rod. It comes in 1/16, 3/32, and 1/8 inch diameters, and you can buy it in one lb. tubes of sections cut in approx. 10" lengths. It's available from online welding supply sources, and I found one at: http://weldingsupply.com/cgi-bin/spider.pl?ED025410||1|340|||12.99.
Once you get you turnbuckle adjusted to where you want it, just cut the wire long enough to span the distance between the swaged stud and the T bolt, plus enough to run through the openings in each and curl back inside itself as you would the ends of a cotter pin. It leaves you with a couple less cut ends to catch sheets on, and the swaged end and T bolt are locked together.

Anybody else tried this?

Sailor Jerry
C-25 "Sea Song"
1978, SK, Std.
Pepin, WI

Edited by - pearson39b on 04/10/2015 11:01:07

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2015 : 13:14:46

I'll email you when I'm back at the Bay Rob. If anyone else wants to join in, let me know.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2015 : 17:49:59

Prepped the boat for tomorrow. Took the tarps off, cleared all the halyards, removed the boom, got the shrouds and turnbuckles ready. Tomorrow is go time!

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2015 : 15:57:09

Alright, it was crazy but the mast is down. Of course it was like 25mph gusts so it was quite nerve racking. Ended up having to loosen all the shrouds 12 spins and completely remove the forward lowers to get it to come free. After that, ran the new mast wiring and replaced and tested all of the new light fixtures. Next is halyard mast plate and replace the old wire halyards and sheaves and I think that's it. Might take a day off tomorrow to go for a cruise on my cousins new 50 footer.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2015 : 05:13:01

Funny but I actually though of you yesterday while I was up working on my boat and the wind was blowing strong. Wondered if it was the same down by you.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2015 : 09:05:21

Started taking the tabernacle off but need a bigger screwdriver so I don't strip the heads. Got the masthead complete though. All new sheaves and halyards and topping lift and spinnaker blocks

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2015 : 08:07:33

So the port side spreader bracket is slightly bent leaving the port spreader slightly more raked aft. It is the stainless bracket so I am assuming been replaced at some time? How bad is it to let it remain as-is? I believe it's been like that since before I purchased the boat. Tons of things keep throwing our time to get back sailing again off and replacing that will hurt believe it or not. I am planning to replace most of the standing rigging next season, so really I am wondering if it might be safe to hold off for another season.

Thanks,

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2015 : 08:25:34

There's no way of telling whether the bracket is so compromised that it might fail, but if it is visibly out of alignment, it's not insignificant. It will probably be ok if you only sail in moderate winds, but, if you get caught in strong winds with too much sail up, your first thought will be to your concern that that fitting is compromised. I suggest you order replacements and meanwhile sail it only in moderate winds. After you receive the new bracket(s), it will take about an hour to take the mast down with the help of 2-3 friends, a half hour to replace the bracket(s), 20-30 minutes to re-raise the mast, 20-30 minutes to re-tune the rig, and 45 minutes to treat your helpers to 2 cold beers. If you get the parts and arrange for a couple helpers, I can help you do it all when I show you how to tune the rig, in 2-3 weeks. That way, you won't lose much sailing time.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 04/14/2015 08:26:32

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2015 : 08:52:29

Mast is down right now. Just sooooo incredibly broke and exhausted between all the projects and unforseen expenses of a new house and getting the boat ship shape. I guess I really just need to buck up and do it now since the mast is lowered.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2015 : 09:06:51

quote:
Just sooooo incredibly broke and exhausted between all the projects and unforseen expenses

LOL...Welcome to boat ownership!

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

wanderer13
1st Mate

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USA
76 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2015 : 12:28:52

Rob,
I think I would be worried more about the lateral stress on the aluminum spreader tube from the upper shroud tension. If the bracket is out of alignment, then it could be putting non-linear stress on the spreader. The tube could fail, and I think it would collapse at the point where it inserted into the bracket sleeve. If the tube collapsed... well, you know.
James

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2015 : 13:14:18

I agree. I think I would feel stupid and constantly think about it if I chose not to replace it. Its really hard to unsee something. Hopefully I can get away with not replacing the compression tube though lol.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2015 : 16:40:32

Tis but a flesh wound! Lol. Old spreader. Replaced the end cap seizing wire and boot on the non damaged spreader today. The new end cap for the new spreader that came from CD today was too tight to fit so I brought it home to file some material off of it. Install tomorrow along with a new boot then the mast is ready to go back up! Planning for Sunday so we'll see how the weather goes.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2015 : 17:04:52

I know exactly when this happened too. Had a big knockdown last season from a gust as I was gybing at speeds I wish I could name. Blew every single slug out of the sail even with a full dump on the main sheet. Got some nice rope burn from that one.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2015 : 06:17:20

quote:
Originally posted by DavidBuoy

So the port side spreader bracket is slightly bent... It is the stainless bracket so I am assuming been replaced at some time?...

The originals were stainless on your vintage (like mine). I'm having a hard time imagining the aluminum tube spreader bending the SS bracket, but if bent, I'd be concerned about the weld on it. You must've really crashed hard! Did you dump the main before the jibe? (That could do it!)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/23/2015 06:23:01

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2015 : 07:13:40

The aluminum spreader and the SS bracket were both bent. I dumped as soon as I knew we were going to have a knockdown. We were past 45deg of heel.

I've replaced the bracket along with the spreader so we should be good.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

Edited by - DavidBuoy on 04/23/2015 07:14:18

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2015 : 12:15:50

Are those 6 bolts through the cabin top holding the line stoppers in place?

They look like a hole in the head event waiting to happen

On JD, when I added stoppers port and stbd, I used an angle grinder to cut off the excess bolt before putting on the Crown nut.

Paul

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2015 : 12:28:19

Yea, I tried with a dremel tool and it wasn't enough for the stainless. I have acorns on them now till I bring a cutter in. Nothing like a little danger in your sail!

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2015 : 16:27:40

New spreader, spreader plate, end cap and boot. You can see the halyard plate installed as well. Ready to raise the rig back up!

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

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