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Bow Repair - Freakin Ouch

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/24/2015 : 18:35:12

Ahhh! sounds like a plan.

Paul

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

jduck00
Captain

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USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2015 : 16:50:14

So the plastic bag didn't work out great. It was ok but not great. The bag folded up under the fitting and didn't leave a good smooth surface.

Get excited about being able to mount the chainplate, check!
Puts the chainplate on the new pad and see it fits good, check!
Drills first hole, double check!
Check and make sure the chainplate didn't move while the epoxy was curing..... nope!

I have a very nice hole through 3/4" of fiber glass that is in the wrong place. Had to fill it in and go again. Not the worse mistake I've ever made but still frustrating.

I did re-bed the chainplate, but put some Vaseline on the bottom of it. Worked like a charm. Finally got a really good looking pad and a nice new hole where its supposed to be.

We have a storm blowing so I bolted down the chainplate with two bolts and put the forstay back on and hand tightened it back down. I feel better now while I'm watching the boat pitch around at the dock.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2015 : 05:20:54

Looks very strong now !!

Btw. you can clean that yellow epoxy marks using a rag wet with acetone.

Dalpol Phobos 21, 2013, Sole Mio, hull #27, current adventures - We sail Phobos 21

PO of Catalina C25, 1978, High Anxiety, hull #701, SR, FK, L-dinette, inboard diesel Volvo Penta MD2010C w/saildrive - more info

jduck00
Captain

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USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2015 : 16:31:33

It was a busy boat weekend. I didn't post any progress pics while I was working on the cosmetic glass. I'm about 99% down with the bow, but still have the coring around the cleats and fiber glassing the inside of the anchor locker. I have a couple of touch ups and a lot of prep sanding to do before I can gelcoat. I got in a hurry and tried laying too much glass while I was working on the bow and ending up with a little pocket right at the tip of the bow. I plan on just filling it in with a thick epoxy mix.

The lines aren't great but they are good. The rub rail will hide the most visible issues so its good enough for me. It would probably take another 3 passes of glassing and sanding to get it perfect. If I was taking someone's money for it, I would do it, but its an old boat and I will probably be the only one that ever notices it.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2015 : 03:02:57

Getting there!

Do you have an estimated GGSD (Gotta Get Sailing Date)

Paul

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

jduck00
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313 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2015 : 03:40:47

I've got a coworker coming down from Canada on the 16th so at least by then, but I hope to be ready after next weekend. The glass in the anchor locker should go pretty quick. It doesn't have to look good, just ok. I think I've spent just as much time getting it looking good as I did getting it built.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2015 : 04:33:08

<< Found out that all of the coring around the anchor locker is soft. Some isn't rotten yet so it gets to wait until winter. The core under the cleats was not quite rotten but had definitely started to delaminate. >>

Yepper.. I've been meaning to rebed my bow pulpit and get some resin to flow into the deck.. thanks for the inspiration, before something gets pulled out.. A good spring project.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Rainwater
Deckhand

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22 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2015 : 16:16:26

Wow what a great repair job! Can't wait to see it finished. Very inspiring to us DIY

"Lisa Rene"-1978 C25

jduck00
Captain

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USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2015 : 17:58:23

I�m almost done. So close, but I still need to finish up a few things. I�ve spent much more time getting it to look good than I did actually repairing the structure.

I have a couple of take aways in case I ever do this again, not that I ever plan to. I should have waited to drill the holes in the leading edge of the bow until after I put the gelcoat on. It was just thick enough to cause some minor problems. That and I should have put a thin leveling coat of fiberglass down. Gelcoat hides no sins. In fact, It just makes them stand out. I wish I had spent a little more time finishing the fiberglass. The gelcoat looks ok, but not great. It looks real good from about 5� away.

The new gelcoat looks much better than old stuff on the boat. I�m planning on re-gelcoating the hull in the winter, I might go all out and strip the deck and do both halves. The hull needs something. I have several mismatched repairs and its getting thin in spots. The prep work for paint and gelcoat is the same. There is just a little more finish work with the gelcoat. So I�m thinking of going gelcoat and it can be good for another 35 years. The top side has worn through in quite a few places. I might see what it would cost to get a boat yard to spray the whole thing if I do all of the prep.

I couldn�t take a good picture inside the anchor locker. I ended up forgoing the plywood under the cleats and just fiberglassed it in. It took about 10 layers of cloth with some compression, but it worked out real well. Much easier than trying to cut a piece of wood to match the shape. I also fiberglassed in the plywood core I put in the bow with a single layer of cloth. It looks ok under the deck. I did find a few sharp edges that hadn�t been sanded smooth while I was putting everything back on. The boat claimed a little more of my blood.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

Edited by - jduck00 on 04/12/2015 18:00:58

wanderer13
1st Mate

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76 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2015 : 19:34:12

Jeremy,
Looks good, man... I doubt anyone will notice the imperfections unless you point them out.
James

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2015 : 05:28:09

Very nice repair man!

Question: how did you applied the gelcoat, spraying or by brush and then sanding?

jduck00
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USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2015 : 05:50:40

Both. I tried a little touch up gun, but it just wasn't cutting it. I spent too much time moving around and the pot time wasn't long enough. I gave up on that and brushed it. I've got a dump gun for bigger areas, but its really more hassle than its worth on a small spot like this.

Sanding the brush marks wasn't all that hard. It was more of the fiberglass not being as smooth as it should be. I had several high spots in the glass and ending up sanding the gelcoat thin a couple of times. Took a few passes to get smooth and covered.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

OLarryR
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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2015 : 09:30:32

Great repair job !!

This should be saved on the forum or accessible via your website.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2015 : 09:43:38

I've never used Gelcoat outside of the little scratch&patch so looking at what is sold there is a waxed type and a no wax type. What is the difference and what would each be used for?

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

jduck00
Captain

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USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2015 : 11:32:19

Gelcoat needs wax to cure. Actually it needs a lack of air to fully cure. There are other ways of getting it sealed off, but wax is a fairly easy way of doing it. The wax moves to the surface of the layer and cuts the gelcoat off from the air. The no wax gelcoat is used for the build up layers with the last layer having wax in it. If I do multiple coats on a touch up, I use wax for all the layers. You just have to get the 2nd layer on before the first cures. If not, you have to let it cure and then clean the wax off and go again.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

Edited by - jduck00 on 04/13/2015 11:33:28

VictorS
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Mexico
32 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2017 : 20:58:32

Hi everyone,

Here you have some pictures of my "little" bow issue. Being told by the PO that it hitted the dock in a storm.

I have no experience with fiberglass so the strategy is:

(i) Learn from our forums, ask for support, comments & advice;

(ii) Ask for help, check. A close friend fellow sailor and fellow ultralight aircraft pilot has already took a look on it, got some of the materials but it was not possible to start today because of rain; will retry on the forthcoming days.

(iii) I will attend some lessons at the specialized glass store which will help me through the process; my idea is to start getting knowledge on the skills needed to fix my own boat.

I think I will also go for the Stem Fitting w/ Anchor Roller upgrade.

Will keep you posted, regards.

Victor Salcedo
1978 C25. #453. FK. SR. L.
CTYK0453M78C

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2017 : 06:02:19

looks like it pulled out the bow eye during the storm.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2017 : 07:01:04

UGGGGG-LY! But apparently not structurally significant. It looks like somebody already did some cutting around it, which may or may not be helpful. You'll probably learn in whatever you choose as a source that you'll need to taper the surfaces gradually outward around the hole on the outside, put at least one layer of woven roving across the hole on the inside, as a base, and then build back up with successively larger pieces of roving and a final layer of mat (the smooth stuff) in order to end up flush with the exterior with plenty of bonding surface to the original hull. Then there's the gelcoat discussion as you saw in this thread.

If there was a bow eye and it pulled through or was knocked out at that hole (I didn't have one, so I don't know exactly where it should be), I might suggest forgetting about replacing it. If you plan to pull her onto a trailer, replace the eye above or below that spot, in original material. You don't want that kind of stress on your repair.

As you get going, I'll suggest a new thread here so we know who this is about. Best of luck, and happy learning!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/26/2017 07:10:20

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2017 : 07:07:53

Hmmm... Now I see what looks suspiciously like a bolt hole at the top of the "big hole"--maybe the bow I was there. My advice stands.

And you might want to take this opportunity to glass in the holes where the "whale eyes" are and put a proper bi-color running light on your bow rail. The whale eyes are grandfathered as legal, but not legal on newer boats. So this is not important.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

jduck00
Captain

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USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2017 : 08:27:05

I'll throw in my 2 cents on how I would approach this one.

-Cut the inner liner back far enough that its out of the way.
-Cut out all of the damage and feather back the fiberglass to get ready for new layup.
-Fill the bow with 2 part 4lb foam and then trim the foam back until you get the shape you want.
-Lay on the new glass. Medium mat, epoxy resin with thickener.
-Gelcoat
-Finish up be removing the foam from inside the boat. It will probably need a few layers of fiberglass to tie it back into the liner if looks are important to you.
-Install new bow eye.

If if you don't feel comfortable doing the glass work, getting it prepped and ready will cut your repair cost down. Prep is almost always the biggest part of the project.

Start a new thread for this one. Feel free to send me an email through the system and I'll send back my contact details if you want to have a convo on it.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

jduck00
Captain

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USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2017 : 08:39:14

Looks like the bow eye is still there, or least I'm seeing the blocking for it in the pictures.

The little hole above the damage should be the anchor locker drain.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2017 : 10:55:39

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

The whale eyes are grandfathered as legal, but not legal on newer boats. So this is not important.

Is this also a Mexican regulation?

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2017 : 12:27:58

Whoa...Hmmm, You might need TWO rolls of Duct Tape for this one...
jduckoo is your go to guy. He did a similar repair.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

jon300c
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2018 : 12:34:28

All,

I have a similar repair from a bow pulpit going through deck from PO. It sat uncovered for a year+ so the core is in need of replacing. I will start a new thread when I begin the repairs this upcoming weekend.

This thread will be very helpful and greatly appreciated!!!

Jon Savage

Edited by - jon300c on 05/08/2018 12:35:23

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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1889 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2018 : 09:44:18

Edit: When I wrote my original post, I only noticed the first page of this thread, and hadn't bothered to see there were two more pages. This edit will be in the context of the whole thread (I hope).

Jeremy,

Thank you for your detailed photos and text explaining your ambitious and well done repair. I've heard of insurance adjusters totaling boats for less. (To which my internal response was "Are you kidding me?!

Gimme that boat!")

It appears your excellent repair is complete by now. However, since others will need to deal with similar damage to the pointy end of their boats, here's my related foredeck repair story anyway.

I had to repair the foredeck on my 1979 Catalina 25. In my case, the boat had been damaged and poorly repaired before I got it. Apparently, the pulpit had been nearly torn off by some sort of collision involving lots of upward force. (Stanchion bolts pulled through deck without ripping deck from hull.)

Previous repair had been to bend railing back to more or less original shape, cut a large, thin plate of stainless steel to covering foredeck ahead of anchor locker to hide the mess, held in place by two fwd stanchions of pulpit. (As I recall, the plate did not extend back to the mooring cleats.) The plywood core had turned to mush fwd of the anchor locker. The mooring cleats had tiny 1/4" or so untreated plywood backing plates which were crushed and rotted. I think my boat came with the early deck-only forestay fitting.

While poking around inside the anchor locker, I noticed a few other areas which could benefit from improvement, such as whale eye lights unprotected from ground tackle, anchor locker pan not sealed from V-birth, tiny clogged drain tube, thin locker cover vulnerable to damage if stepped on while partially closed on anchor rode or chain, zinc latch, maybe some other stuff. It was awhile ago, and I'm not at the boat now to refresh my memory.

On my boat, I left the damaged foredeck in place, and worked through the anchor locker opening. (The bow fiberglass wasn't crushed like yours.)

I started by removing the anchor locker cover and all bow hardware.

Straightened the pulpit a little better than it was.

Ordered that awesome stem fitting with anchor roller from Catalina.

Dug out rotted core from below.

Cut new core from two layers of 1/4" marine plywood. Applied fiberglass on bottom face of each, sealed edges, let cure firm (for less messy handling).

Finished coating core with WEST epoxy.

Before all that epoxy cured solid, bedded the new foredeck core in thickened epoxy mush, and pressed into shape from below with a small jack as I recall, and about a dozen self-tapping screws down through the foredeck. (Foredeck has a slight crown, hence multiple layers of thin plywood, uncured resin, screws, and jack.)

Reinforced underside and cracked lip of anchor locker cover with couple layers of fiberglass and epoxy, redrilled holes, cut matching notches in fwd edge of cover and deck opening large enough for two chains.

Sealed around edges of anchor locker pan with couple layers of fiberglass and epoxy.

Laminated and shaped plywood housings for backside of whale eye lights, with 3" diameter Beckson-plate-style access covers (I ordered red & green ones) for bulb access, coated with epoxy, installed with thickened epoxy mush. Replaced old wiring while I was in there.

Laminated up a square foot or so of about 3/16" thick flat fiberglass plate with epoxy to cut up into backing plates as needed.

Installed fiberglass backing plates bedded in epoxy mush for mooring cleats. Drilled original cleats and mounting holes for 5/16-NC SS machine screws, fender washers, nylock nuts.

Replaced bow eye with next thicker size backed with block of teak, bedded with 3M-5200.

Made movable partition for anchor locker from 1/4" plywood and epoxy. In cross section, partition is shaped like inverted 'T', with the base smaller than the floor of the anchor locker, so it can slide side-to-side, creating a divider to separate two anchor rodes. (I suppose the top edge could have been shaped to add support to the locker lid, but I'm not that fanatical about detail.)

Replaced the original locker drain tube with 1/2" SCH40 PVC, extending a 1/2" or so out from the hull to prevent rust stains on the stem.

Repaired cosmetic damage with gelcoat, sanded, polished, bolted everything back together.

Added hanger on pulpit for Danforth anchor, drilled Claw anchor to match retaining pin of new roller stem fitting.

If repairing a boat with a lot of torn up fiberglass at the bow, I might consider looking for a junked donor boat to provide an undamaged bow section. Then splice the fiberglass together further back from the damage at a more accessible area where stresses are less concentrated, shapes less complicated, and cosmetic finishing simpler.

For those of you eager to replace your whale eye lights, I'll be glad to take your old ones! I recently replaced the red/green combo bow light which hangs off the pulpit of my Catalina 22. On the third sail outing since getting the project boat in the water, I bounced the bow light off a dock piling, bending the welded light mount bracket. (Let he who has never kissed a dock with the bow of his boat cast the first stone.

) The new LED light appears to still work, but this incident confirms one of my reservations about that style light. Couldn't they have recessed that bracket a couple more inches, putting the light lens slightly behind the stainless steel tubing?

-- Leon Sisson

� Leon Sisson

Edited by - Leon Sisson on 05/11/2018 10:44:49

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