Association Forum - Bow Repair

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Bow Repair - Freakin Ouch

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 3

jduck00
Captain

Member Avatar

USA
313 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/14/2015 : 09:25:24

Im about to start a project I hadn't planned on. We were pulling out of the dock and ended up smashing into the sea wall. Shortest 4 day sail I've ever had.

We were easing off the doc and making a tight turn in the canal. The boat was just about perpendicular to the sea wall when I shifted into reverse to swing the bow around. When I did the block that holds the throttle and shifter cables to the motor broke. The end result is that the motor was still in forward gear and the throttle was opened wide open. We only moved about 5 feet, but in that span the 10 hp motor got us up to a couple of knots and then bam. Managed to crack the Sea wall as well as smash the front of the boat. It all happened in what seams like about 5 seconds. I had my finger on the kill switch as we hit the wall.

Luckily nobody was hurt. The admiral was on the bow at the time managing the dock lines. She got an up front view of the collision.

Have any of you fellows been in this spot before? Any big gotchas to worry about as I cut the front of the boat off to make the repairs? On a job like like this epoxy over poly resin?

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

Edited by - jduck00 on 03/16/2015 08:56:49

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2015 : 09:30:18

Always epoxy for repairs. Poly doesn't have the adhesion characteristics of epoxy and should only be used in initial construction so layers can cure together.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2015 : 13:00:07

Oh, WOW -- I hate when crap like that happens on a boat! You're all set for your trip and psyched to go out then "screeeeeeech!!!" Stops you dead in your tracks. I'm sorry to hear that happened to your boat.

Regarding repairs, can you just "glue" the pieces back together?, or do you have to rebuild the bow? Laying in fibregalss cloth, wetting it down with epoxy (is essential), cutting to shape, etc? If you're just gluing the pieces back together, make sure that there's no hidden structural damage, since the bow holds up under a lot of forces:
(1) Forestay and jib sail tension;
(2) Docklines that have to hold onto the bow cleats in a storm;
(3) Anchor rode stretching and popping on rolling seas...
I agree - epoxy is the only way to go.

Before you start your repairs, jump on it, whack it, look up inside the anchor locker and the vee berth, knock on it with a mallet - listen, look, feel, sniff - looking for unseen damage.

Stand way back and take a good look on centerline toward the bow, on the beam and from the aft. Maybe ask a surveyor to take a look too.

Good luck on your repairs.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2015 : 13:10:48

IMHO -- the head stay is too important to mess around with. I would have a professional look at it and advise the best course of action. I also would most likely shell out the bucks and have them do the work -- both for peace of mind and to make sure your boat continues to be insurable. On that note, have you spoken with anyone to see if the damage is covered under your policy?

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2015 : 13:17:42

Good call Peter!

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2015 : 14:36:31

quote:
I would have a professional look at it and advise the best course of action.

Yeh buddy, Thats no gel-coat scratch repair, Is it all busted up under the rub rail too?

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

jduck00
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2015 : 15:41:09

So far no major cracks short of the tip of the bow. I crawled around in the vberth and it looks\sounds good as high as I could tap going in from the front access panel. The hull below the bow looks good. Not even a crack in the gelcoat in the hull itself. Looking in the anchor locker the damage looks fairly localized to the front 6 inches. Don't know what it looks like under the rub rail. I cracked open the bottle of rum early today so that's a problem for tomorrow.

On another note, I thought there would be a whole lot more structure holding down the forstay. The glass that stem fitting bolts down to can't be more than a 3/8" thick. I expected to find a little more structure there.

I almost upgraded to the stem fitting with a roller when I had the boat on the trailer. Sure glad I didn't do the upgrade last year. At least now I have a good reason for it.

I've calmed down now and accepted that what's done is done. There for a while I was real tempted to unbolt the motor and send it into the drink.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2015 : 18:06:03

quote:
Originally posted by jduck00

I almost upgraded to the stem fitting with a roller when I had the boat on the trailer. Sure glad I didn't do the upgrade last year. At least now I have a good reason for it.

You are referring to this - which has a plate that extends down to the hull?

http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/584/stem-fitting-w-anchor-roller-c-25.cfm

1989 C25 TR/WK, #5822
1973 McVay Minuet 19
1975 Jester 12
1981 C25 SR/SK, #2428
1981 C22 SR/SK,
Tanzer 16
Sunfish

"There is nothing, absolutely nothing half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats." Kenneth Grahame

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2015 : 21:18:12

I was about to ask about the stem fitting with the tang reaching down on the bow--that was an upgrade some time in the mid-'80s. The tang only reaches down maybe 8"--does that give you some undamaged original structure to support the rig?

I fully agree with the advice to involve a professional--this is not cosmetic damage--it's a critical structural area.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/15/2015 21:19:09

jduck00
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2015 : 09:27:48

OJ, yes that�s the stem fitting \ chainplate that I�m looking at. It adds a lot more support than the original.

I carry a thousand dollar deductible on the boat. Basically I get a little crying money if it ever ends up being a total loss. I figure I can fix this for about $300. The biggest expense is the new fitting and the exopy resin I have to get. I use poly for the small projects on the boat. Nothing critical, but I find that it works well for the small stuff and is cheap.

I have a couple of days off. I�m supposed to be sitting at the beach with my toes in the sand, but now its work days for the boat. So, I jumped in the Dingy, started cutting and learned a couple of things.

First, the collision could have been much much worse. The chainplate took the brunt of the hit. When it did it cracked the deck and the support glass behind the plate. The top deck bond actually broke and the deck buckled around the hull. Besides the backing around the chainplate, the hull took no damage. I also put the mask on and dove down to inspect the bottom. There are some really nasty rocks by the seawall. We hit it at high tide so we managed to float above all of the nasty hull gouging rocks.

Second, the plywood core in the bow of the boat is completely rotten. This will be a good time to address that as well.

Now that I�ve got it cut away, I can see that this isn�t going to be a hard glass job. I plan on making it much beefier than it used to be. Not counting the rotten core, the glass on the deck under the fitting is at most 3/8� thick. I�m going to grind the liner down a couple of inches and glass on both sides of the hull. That will put my total thickness for the new cap at about 5/8�. That and a decent backing plate will be much stronger than it was originally. Take that and the new chainplate fitting and it will be a hoss.

I�ll post pics of the progress as I go. Besides some prep work, I�m at a standstill until Wednesday. I have to wait on the new fitting before I start reforming the tip of the bow.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

Edited by - jduck00 on 03/16/2015 09:29:06

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2015 : 12:42:56

Did the hit bend the pulpit steel tubing?

Paul

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

jduck00
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2015 : 12:58:28

Nope. It hit square on the chain plate. The cracks on the deck around the front pulpit supports are due to the coring being rotten. That has been on my radar of things to work on at some point, but being it didn't keep from sailing it was tabled for winter work now for a couple of years.

I'll post a picture of the old chain plate this evening. Its bent pretty good considering how thick that stainless is. I think the plate bending and the deck bond breaking is what saved having any more damage than I do. Well, I'm sure the rub rail help some. It was completely destroyed.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

Members Avatar

Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2015 : 03:35:34

It does looks bad, but it is repairable. Especially when the hull is fine.
I would create a wooden frame of original shape (with plywood on the top) minus the width of the fiberglass layers you will then put on the top and put some glass inside the anchor locker. Mask everything !!! Then simply repaint.
Then install what OJ suggests (that new style stem fitting with anchor roller) and you are fine, because the load will be spread to the hull which looks fine.

If you would like to be 100% confident, you can also add turnbuckle reinforcement inside the anchor locker.

The aluminum railing can be repaired too... probably the easiest part.

PS: I have just noticed, that the original plywood core you had there was rotten, so probably that's why it was so crushed.
Once you are repairing that, you can simply add new plywood under the whole bow area. Check my repair here.
Then re-bed everything with butyl tape and you are safe.

Good luck!

Dalpol Phobos 21, 2013, Sole Mio, hull #27, current adventures - We sail Phobos 21

PO of Catalina C25, 1978, High Anxiety, hull #701, SR, FK, L-dinette, inboard diesel Volvo Penta MD2010C w/saildrive - more info

Edited by - Tomas Kruska on 03/17/2015 03:44:11

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3474 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2015 : 10:08:52

Yepper.. i would re-glass that job in a heartbeat..

Add you a fancy bow sprit

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2015 : 10:29:05

How 'bout a clipper bow? (Then you'd need to do a wineglass stern, then a teak deck, bright cabin sides and coamings,...)

Araminta at Mystic Seaport

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/17/2015 10:31:09

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2015 : 12:40:08

Now your thinking Dave, Add one of these to it while your at it.. The possibilities are endless!

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 03/17/2015 12:41:07

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2015 : 12:59:15

Better yet, Slide one of these out the hole.. You have to give up the V-Birth but the upside is you will always have Right of Way!

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

jduck00
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2015 : 16:49:01

Don't temp me. I could have used that canon a few times now.

A little prep work my arse..... Found out that all of the coring around the anchor locker is soft. Some isn't rotten yet so it gets to wait until winter. The core under the cleats was not quite rotten but had definitely started to delaminate. Spent most of the day grinding and chipping out the old stuff. Another half day of prep and I might be ready to glass.

I worked right up till dark so no pictures today. Work is progressing. Hope to have it done by the end of the weekend.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2015 : 19:27:29

You might want to look into getting something like Nida-Core for the repair--no more worries about rot. My boat is built with it, and it's solid as rock!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3474 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2015 : 05:47:03

http://www.blumhorst.com/catalina27/bowsprit.htm

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

jduck00
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2015 : 14:55:31

Dave, I wish I had thought about that before I went out and got a sheet of plywood.

I managed to get everything cleaned up and my first pass of glass done today. Still working on getting the new coring cut to size. That's a project to finish up tomorrow.

I did get the new stem fitting / chainplate in from CD and holy cow what a difference. The new one is a beast compared to the old one. I'll upload a picutre of two later on tonight.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

jduck00
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2015 : 16:35:09

Here's a picture of the two chainplates. I shouldn't have any problems after I finish the glass and put the new one on.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2015 : 06:12:39

I'm impressed with what you have gotten accomplished is a short amount of time. Also your skill level. This can't be that easy leaning out off a dock.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 03/19/2015 06:17:54

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

Members Avatar

844 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2015 : 09:38:18

Superb workmanship, nice job. When you rebed the bow pulpit, use Maine Sail's butyl tape.

Stu
1986 C34 #224 "Aquavite"
Cowichan Bay, BC Maple Bay Marina
(formerly San Francisco)
(formerly C25 #2459 "Capricorn Two")

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3474 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2015 : 12:30:16

I don't get the images.. broken link or something.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2015 : 15:22:04

No link Ray, The images are in his post. I don't know why you don't see them.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Page: of 3

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.