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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

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tatill
Deckhand

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USA
8 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/25/2015 : 13:38:28

Just completed the purchase of a 1980 Catalina 25 swing keel. It has a dual axle trailer(needs some work),excellent 20" shaft Evinrude 8 hp 4 stroke, new bimini top,all fenders and life jackets, good sail and Genoa(not sure of size yet),std. rig, cushions good,portapottie and stove removed.I still haven't dug through everything that came with it.Paid $3600 for it sitting on a trailer. It is still at the sellers shop but plan on putting it in a slip in Pensacola Florida soon. I don't know anything about sailing but I am fixing to learn. Hull #CTYK1803M80E. What does this tell you?

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2015 : 14:16:18

It says you're about to embark on a great adventure in which you'll be learning new skills, exploring new venues and overcoming old fears. Welcome aboard!

Edited by - on

michael.j.wenger
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2015 : 14:26:34

One of the best investments that I made in my "new to me" (also "first for me") C25 TR/SK was the time and money that went into taking the ASA Basic Keelboat course:

http://asa.com/certifications/asa-101-basic-keelboat-sailing/

I took this one in Dallas right after I got my boat, and it really gave me a solid foundation. I'm still making d****ss newbie mistakes, but I think far, far fewer than would have been true had I NOT taken the class! Very much worth it!

Edited by - on

wanderer13
1st Mate

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USA
76 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2015 : 14:44:52

Welcome to sailing! I would second the recommendation for sailing lessons - particularly since you have never been sailing. It will definitely make it a more enjoyable experience and ease some initial fears. Since you already own a boat, you may able to hire an sailing instructor to come out with you.

While some may disagree, I would recommend against keeping a C25 swing keel in the water for extended periods of time.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2015 : 15:02:33

quote:
While some may disagree, I would recommend against keeping a C25 swing keel in the water for extended periods of time.

I'll be the first to disagree with this. During the ten years that I owned my C25, 2004-2014, the boat was only out of the water about four to five times. Every time it was out of the water, attention to the bottom and the lifting hardware were the reason. Replace the swing keel cable and turning ball every two to three years and replace the cable winch when needed and you should not have any problems. At least I didn't. Welcome.....

Edited by - on

tatill
Deckhand

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USA
8 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2015 : 15:32:24

Thanks for the advice. I had planned on taking the course and then looking for the boat. But I stumbled on this one at the right time and couldn't pass it up.I still plan on taking the course. The guy at the shop where it was sitting(Michael Carpenter, Southern Cross Marine Services) said he would help me get it in the water and rigged up. I have heard both arguments about the swing keel but I believe that i will use it much more if it is in the slip ready to go all the time. I am looking forward to this journey.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2015 : 15:33:53

I should learn not to weigh in on swing keel discussion, but I'll say there are a lot of them in the water, including salt water. A strict maintenance schedule, as Davy suggests, should keep you safe. I'd start now--get the kit from [url="http://catalinadirect.com/"]Catalina Direct[/url], a third-party supplier of parts and upgrades that are very specific to our boats.

Lessons are great... even from friends if they're experienced sailors. However, a certified instructor is generally better trained to take you through the basics and cover all of the key safety issues. Don't go out on your own and pull the sails up until you've had some mentoring of that nature--you could hurt somebody (including yourself).

We're here to answer your questions--the first of which was "...What does this tell you?"

CTY = Catalina Yachts.
K = C-25.
1803 = the 1,803rd C-25 built since the 1976 introduction.
M = the following year signifies a Model year.
80 = 1980 model.
E = December (A = August) the month the hull came out of the mold.

Welcome!!

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2015 : 10:29:13

Tatill - I've had the '80 swing standard rig for 8 years, and immediately learned the importance of keel maintenance. The general rule of thumb is to replace the cable every 2 years. It's not expensive and is money well spent when considering the risks of the keel swinging down uncontrolled...also look into the turning ball and rubber hose. I replace them every 4 years. I eventually replaced the winch, which wad original, so 35 years was long enough by my reckoning.

Joining the Forum was your second smart move (buying the boat being the first

) Catalina Direct is a really valuable resource. They are the only (to my knowledge) source for many parts for our specific boat.

Depending on how diligent the PO was, you may need to replace other components in addition to the cable. CD sells a parts manual, which is more than worth the cost. You will learn so many details simply not available elsewhere.

Lastly, this Forum has an enourmous wealth of data and experience on the care and sailing of our boat. Do some searches and you'll find in-depth conversations about every topic you'll want...

Fair Winds!

Jerry

Edited by - jerlim on 02/02/2015 10:56:42

pearson39b
1st Mate

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93 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2015 : 13:47:33

Really glad to see the recommendations for sailing lessons here. I'm an ASA Instructor, and I can tell you from experience it's a lot easier to develop the right sailing habits from the beginning than it is to unlearn bad habits and let go of bad information.

In your situation, I would recommend finding a school, or club that trains you on their boats along with other students. It should keep your costs down, you will have the benefit of learning from the mistakes and successes of others, you will have the advantage of working with a crew of peers, and the skills you learn on one boat usually translate pretty easily to another. You will also have the advantage of knowing that if something isn't working for you, it's not because the boat isn't set up properly.

You can likely also find an instructor to teach you on your own boat, but I would recommend they meet at least ASA or US Sailing Instructor certification standards. Learning from friends is always a dicey thing - even if they are highly "experienced." I'm sure there are a number of competent sailors who have taught others to sail well, but I can't begin to tell you how many really difficult remedial issues I've seen result from earnestly offered, but poorly handled instruction from friends and relatives.. Problem is, it's hard to tell which is which at this stage.

My final recommendation, is that you consider taking a Basic Coastal Cruising class in addition to the BKB. Sometimes schools will offer an attractive package price for both courses, and you're going to learn more about your C-25 systems, anchoring and other advanced skills in the BCC class. Along this line, I am NOT recommending that you take one of the inclusive courses that some school now lump into a week-long trip, that might include as many as three courses: BKB, BCC, and Bare-Boat charter.

Don't know if this helps, but I know I would have appreciated this information when I first started sailing. Took me a few years to figure it out...

Sailor Jerry
C-25 "Sea Song"
1978, SK, Std.
Pepin, WI

tatill
Deckhand

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USA
8 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2015 : 20:26:08

I finally got to put the boat in the water this weekend. Found a few problems that need immediate attention though.It is taking on a minimum of 30-50 gallons of water a day. Have left it in the slip with a automatic bilge pump running until I get the bunks modified and a winch on the trailer to pull it back out again Saturday.The research i have done eliminates the easy fixes . It is not coming from the hose around the keel cable,nor from the thru hull from the galley.which is the only thru hull fitting I can find.It appears to be coming from along the edge of the keel trunk. When we moved it the 2 blocks from where it was at to the launch I noticed that most of the weight appeared to be on the keel instead of the side bunks. I don't know if this is acceptable or not. I know that the weight of the keel needs to be rested on the trailer and not suspended when transporting the boat but don't know about the other way around.The guy I bought it from and the guy that was representing the boat for sale are both embarassed and working with me to get it fixed but one is out of state and the other is pretty busy. I figure i will get the best advice from this forum on potential areas to investigate.It has put a damper on the purchase but I am still looking forward to the journey. Any advice(other than never buy a boat you haven't put in the water, I have heard that from the wife enough already,lol)will be appreciated.

Tom
C-25 swing keel
Brewton, Alabama

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2015 : 20:32:59

Several good programs in Pensacola, Pearl used to winter there and took me along. Then she got a dog as firstmate and started going to Port St Joe. Stayed at Pensacola Marine, several years at Sabine Marina, and and three more at a condo that had slips.

Edit: my signature photo is Pensacola Bay

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Edited by - Dave5041 on 02/02/2015 20:34:13

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2015 : 20:38:39

On swing keel boats the weight of the boat should never rest on the keel. The boat should sit on the bunks and the keel should be lowered several inches until the keel rests on a support made for that purpose.

When you get ready to launch or retrieve on the trailer the keel is cranked up tight in the keel truck until the boat is launched or back on the trailer.

Fin keel or wing keel boats are designed for 60 - 70% of the weight of the boat to sit on the keel and the bunks support just enough weight to keep the boat from falling over while transporting.

If you are getting 30 - 50 gallons of water a day you need to get the boat out of the water ASAP and not wait until the weekend! With a leak this bad I doubt you will have much trouble figuring out where the leak is once you get it back on the trailer as there will be a steady dream of water coming out from the spot of the leak.

If there is a power failure or a pump fails your boat will be on the bottom quickly.

Also, I'd suggest you make it very clear to the guy representing the boat that he needs to get UNBUSY and get your trailer adjusted and the boat out of the water at his expense! NOW!

I hate to say this but if this boat is leaking this badly I'd be asking for my money back!

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - GaryB on 02/02/2015 20:47:14

tatill
Deckhand

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USA
8 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2015 : 20:45:37

Thanks Gary, that is what I suspected. The trailer is a jury rigged affair at best. I can modify it to get the boat back out and then take a close look at that keel trunk for a stress crack.Does anyone have a minimum height for the bunks above where the keel should rest.

Tom
C-25 swing keel
Brewton, Alabama

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2015 : 20:49:35

quote:
Originally posted by tatill

Thanks Gary, that is what I suspected. The trailer is a jury rigged affair at best. I can modify it to get the boat back out and then take a close look at that keel trunk for a stress crack.Does anyone have a minimum height for the bunks above where the keel should rest.

Was there any sign inside the boat that water had been getting in before. Telltale water stains in the fiberglass in the area of the keel truck?

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

tatill
Deckhand

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USA
8 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2015 : 21:03:32

None that I could tell. There was some signs of leaks around the windows. There is some trash that floated up out of the bilge to the edges of where the water has gone to this time but no obvious stain lines.

Tom
C-25 swing keel
Brewton, Alabama

tatill
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
8 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2015 : 06:47:56

Got the trailer rebuilt somewhat during the week and boat out of the water on Saturday.No obvious pouring out of water from a hole when it was removed from water. I raised the bunks during the week and when it went back on the trailer the keel was not supporting any weight. Moved it to Southern Cross's yard and he is going to put it on stands and lower the keel this week. Thinking is that the keel trunk is cracked somewhere from the weight of the boat resting on the keel.Will keep you updated.

Tom
C-25 swing keel
Brewton, Alabama

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2015 : 09:01:07

That's evidence... A crack on the top of the keel trunk could result in water that collects on both sides of the trunk but can't drain back out of the crack. If you put enough water into the bilge to cover the top of the trunk, you might see some start to pour out. (But then you'd have to pump the rest out.)

There have been other incidents with C-25 SKs that reinforce the rule never to let the swing keel support the weight of the boat--especially when transporting.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/09/2015 09:01:39

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2015 : 10:11:36

All good advice. There is potential that the boat already has suffered a cable failure. Whether there is a crack from riding on the keel or a keel fall, it is repairable. A thorough, professional checkout is warranted since we're not talking cheap and the repair, especially if a keel fall, needs to be done professionally.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

tatill
Deckhand

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USA
8 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2015 : 14:01:19

Update. As was suspected the crack in the keel trunk was about 2 feet back from the pivot point of the keel. Cut out enough floor to repair on top and ground out crack on bottom and repaired. Been too busy to rush the work along but should be ready to go back in the water soon. Have new adjustable plates to mount on trailer. Once done with that I won't have this problem again.

Tom
C-25 swing keel
Brewton, Alabama

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2015 : 14:15:31

Tom, if you have them, post pics of the work you did.

(A benefit of Membership

)

Paul

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

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