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Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/29/2014 : 18:44:52

Can somebody provide me with information or photos of how they were able to place both batteries in the starboard side battery tray? I can get both batteries in the tray but not if I were to have them in battery boxes, which I think is a must.

How is everyone doing that?

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2014 : 19:20:58

I don't know if '86 has the batteries under the starboard settee, that's where mine are without boxes. The compartment is completely enclosed and the batteries are individually strapped down with webbing secured with through bolts and backing plates in the floor of the compartment. The breaking strength of the webbing is about 70 times the weight of each battery, so I'm pretty comfortable with their stability.

Edited by - on

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2014 : 19:26:47

I don't have a photo, but both mine fit there with boxes. Maybe it's the size of your batteries/boxes? I like having boxes there because I get a leak that drips right above there and the boxes keep water off the batteries and connections.

Edited by - on

Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2014 : 19:31:05

Maybe automotive boxes are not what I should be using.

I have the factory shelf with straps and there's room for the batteries, just not with boxes - not enough room fore and aft. Is there a marine box alternative that's smaller? I suppose I can build an acid resistant box of some sort if I need to.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2014 : 19:44:38

I have never seen battery boxes that fit the batteries snugly. Where are the batteries on your's?

Edited by - on

ct95949
Captain

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Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2014 : 20:42:11

I don't have a photo either but if I remember correctly on my '79 the two batteries sat on the shelf in plastic boxes next to the water tank and the fit was kind of tight. The boxes were kept from sliding on the shelf with small cleats screwed to the shelf. I wouldn't be afraid to do a little minor surgery in this area to get the boxes to fit. It doesn't have to be pretty, just secure.

Edited by - on

Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2014 : 05:40:11

My batteries are positioned just as Craig says his are. If I can't find smaller boxes I may build and enclosure.

Rethinking this... I'm using Optima deep cycles so now I'm wondering if enclosures are required with gel batteries. More investigating.

Edited by - Kper on 12/30/2014 05:41:30

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2014 : 06:53:04

Battery boxes or at least restraints are required by law in CT. Each year when I get a free courtesy safety inspection by the USPowerSquadron, they check that the battery is in the box and the tie-downs are snug and secure. If you don't have enough room under the starboard settee you can use the space under the foreward dinette seat. On our style cabin, that's the typical location for the #2 battery. Just be sure your connection cables are of sufficient ampacity for the cable runs (2X) and the + side is fused on both ends.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2014 : 07:08:29

I would not use boxes... just strap the batteries down.

Edited by - on

Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2014 : 07:13:35

Bruce, I have the head holding tank, macerator pump and associated hoses in there. I considered sub-locating it under the aft dinette seat but, truthfully, I'd prefer to "make" it work somehow in the factory location. Now that the holiday rush is over I'll be revisiting the boat for a new plan.

Edited by - on

Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2014 : 07:21:09

quote:
Originally posted by redeye

I would not use boxes... just strap the batteries down.

I'm starting to lean this way

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2014 : 08:46:30

Kyle, Your boat is an 86 and mine is an 87 so I'm guessing your battery's are located in the compartment just aft of the water tank. You can fit 2 battery's in the compartment. The battery's have to be orientated Port to Starboard and one of them will be slid aft of the opening some. The second battery will sit forward of the first. You may have to extend the plywood floor that the battery's sit on to accommodate the 2 battery's but is easily do-able. Of course this is for wet battery's sized Group 24,27 31. I don't know the dimensions of the Optima battery's.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2014 : 11:06:44

Scott,
You mentioned that the batteries should be oriented port to starboard. Mine is fore to aft. I can see how you can fit two side-by-side. Now the question is, can you get a single battery box that will accommodate two batteries? I like the fact that the acid is inside of an acid-proof barrier just in case the boat leans over and spills, or the case cracks in the cold, the acid is contained. Could be that state laws require the batteries be tied down, but I like the idea of the battery being inside of a container. I think that Sir Isaac Fig Newton's 13th law is "Shtuff happens".

Edited by - on

Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2014 : 11:58:59

Scott,
The batteries are located precisely where you mentioned. Both batteries will fit without boxes and since they are AGM batteries and I never have them installed during cold weather I am leaning towards going without boxes.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2014 : 12:59:12

Kyle, I did a little search on Battery installs and found this,

quote:
FEDERAL LAW

183.420 - Batteries

(b) Each battery must be installed so that metallic objects cannot come in contact with the ungrounded battery terminals.

If an ungrounded battery terminal is left exposed, it is possible that an accidental connection to ground could occur. The use of, or dropping of, tools nearby could make such a connection during routine engine servicing. This connection could result in a spark of sufficient energy to ignite any explosive vapors that might be present or to start an electrical fire.

To prevent accidental contact with the ungrounded battery terminal, it may be covered with a boot or non-conductive shield. The battery could be installed in a covered battery box or special, fitted compartment. (See Figure 14).

FIGURE 14 - Ungrounded Battery Terminal Connection

TO COMPLY WITH THE LAW

Have precautions been taken to prevent metallic objects from coming in contact with the ungrounded battery terminal when the battery is in its installed position?

So do you need a box? I think to comply you only need to cover the positive (ungrounded)terminals with a rubber boot like in your car although boxes with covers accomplish the same thing and go a step farther by containing a possible spill.
Strapping the battery's down is mandatory especially on a sailboat.

quote:
FEDERAL LAW

183.420 - Batteries

(a) Each installed battery must not move more than one inch in any direction when a pulling force of 90 pounds or twice the battery weight, whichever is less, is applied through the center of gravity of the battery as follows:

(1) Vertically for a duration of one minute.

(2) Horizontally and parallel to the boat’s center line for a duration of one minute fore and one minute aft.

(3) Horizontally and perpendicular to the boat’s center line for a duration of one minute to starboard and one minute to port.

Kyle, If you go with just the battery terminal covers I would print out the above regulation and keep it on the boat. I have been boarded and told that I had a violation for my nightime signaling devise. I don't carry flairs but instead have a nightime flashing strobe that signals S.O.S. I had to show the coasty the regulation that it was legal. I think he was a little embarassed.

Edited by - islander on 12/30/2014 14:10:08

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2014 : 14:08:44

I've seen the boxes used for years on offshore power boats in the Gulf Coast they were somewhat needed as the compartments were often loaded with excessive numbers of cables. The boxes were often a pain in that they held water and hid the condition of the battery. By the time you opened up the battery box for inspection it was a pain to reassemble the box and tiedowns. The boxes made access to the connections difficult. I would have to remove the battery from the box to clean and inspect and try lifting one out of that box.. Ah the memories...

Anyhoo....
Tie downs such as straps or [url="http://www.westmarine.com/buy/seafit--battery-hold-down-trays--P009_272_003_003"]Seafit Battery Hold Down[/url] Allows you to keep the battery secure and easy to work on and inspect.

I'm using the Seafit and it works great for a very reasonable price.

Edited by - redeye on 12/30/2014 14:17:52

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2014 : 15:20:16

Thinking about this and another way you could go is to place the battery in a box for containment against a possible spill but don't use the cover. Instead of the cover use the terminal boots. This way you still comply with the reg. Have spill prevention and are able to easily inspect the terminals without having to take anything apart.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2014 : 16:43:21

For what it's worth.

<< against a possible spill >>

I've never seen batteries spill anymore. My understanding is that they are using porous plastic covers on the fill covers that will let air through but not water.

My brother works for the one of the companies that makes the product. ( and designed it.. Porex .. )

Believe me.. If they leaked ... mine would be all over that compartment.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2014 : 16:55:04

I agree Ray. I believe the caps/covers are made to vent gasses not liquid. That's if you even have a battery with them. Many battery's today are sealed no maintenance type.

Edited by - islander on 12/30/2014 16:56:23

jaydon
Navigator

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USA
156 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2015 : 08:26:59

Hi all
Checked the battery under the stbd settee. Not dual batteries, but one single CAT battery,
As best as I can tell, this is it-
https://parts.cat.com/en/catcorp/batteries/premium-high-output/153-5710
It is pretty big.
Now there is also another battery in a wood enclosure back at the end and inbd of the quarter berth. I'm not sure there is even supposed to be an enclosure back there.
What does everyone have for batteries? I'd rather just have two under the stbd settee if that was the original plan of Catalina when the boat was designed.
2 Group 27s?
Thanks for any help.
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2015 : 11:49:45

That Cat battery is a group 4D and gives you 200 amp/hrs. Thats a hefty amount and a good thing. The more the better. 2 group 27's will give you 180 amp/hrs in comparison. The only problem with the Cat battery is it is a starting battery and not a deep cycle but if its a good battery I would keep it until it gives you trouble then you can replace it with one or two batteries of your size choice. This depends on how you use the boat. Day Sailing only requires one battery and overnighting may require 2 batteries. Group 24,27,31 are the usual sizes used in our boats depending on how many amp/hrs you want. Having 2 batteries doubles your available amp/hrs. That other battery in the back is something put there by your PO. What for I would not know. Do you have electric start on your engine? If so maybe for that.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 03/27/2015 11:52:33

jaydon
Navigator

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USA
156 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2015 : 13:09:06

Yeah, it has electric start, but I would think the CAT battery would handle that.
I'm not sure of the condition of either battery. I hope the CAT is good as it weighs a ton and will be a bear getting it out. Especially if it doesn't have handles. LOL
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

wanderer13
1st Mate

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USA
76 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2015 : 14:24:25

Hi Jay,
I replaced my batteries last summer. One EV27 Deep Cycle for the house battery and one marine starting battery for the engine - here's how they fit.
James

jaydon
Navigator

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USA
156 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2015 : 16:29:55

Nice, That CAT battery takes up that whole space.
I wanted to put a picture with the email, but couldn't.
Just out of curiosity, which service do you have your pictures with?
I tried to attack from iPhoto and couldn't. The instructions say you need to have your pictures on the web first??
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

wanderer13
1st Mate

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USA
76 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2015 : 18:03:48

I did it through the association portal.

Association Members Area... Upload images... Manage my images... icon on the right with the chain symbol... bottom of page reveals link to embed image into the forum post.

Admin
Forum Admin

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460 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2015 : 18:13:28

Jame, nice Burgee!

Paul

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