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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2014 : 13:29:21

Thats easy. Lets see... A little search on Dave turns up..

quote:
assuming the plaintiff could figure out who we are

Dave Bristle
President at Whitehall Landing Condominium Association, Inc.
Mystic, ConnecticutLeisure, Travel & Tourism
Current
Mystic Seaport Maritime Museum, Whitehall Landing Condominium Association, Inc.
Previous
Literacy Volunteers of Eastern Connecticut, IBM, Control Data, TSI International, and Usertech
Education
Purdue University - Krannert School of Management

Edited by - on

ftworthsailor
Captain

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USA
279 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2014 : 13:30:43

What? No REAL Personally Identifiable Information ??

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2014 : 13:40:27

That took all of 30 seconds. I only point this out how vunurable you are on the internet because I was contacted by a company that does helocopter photo's of your boat (no names). I had said on this forum some negative things about them and they were going to sue me if I didn't retract them. Needless to say I deleated the post. I imagine that they search the internet for their name and then look for feedback.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2014 : 14:48:50

Dave's analysis is mostly correct. We have always been individually liable for making libelous or slanderous statements. The law hasn't changed in that respect. People on this forum and elsewhere often get angry and make statements and accusations that are gross exaggerations, and/or that they don't know to be true. In any slander or libel action, truth is a complete defense. When you make an accusation, rein in your emotions and just be sure that (1) the statement is true, and (2) that you can prove it. If you throw accusations around recklessly, you can get in trouble. If you think first, and ask yourself those two questions, you can save yourself much grief.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2014 : 17:51:33

quote:
Originally posted by islander

Thats easy. Lets see... A little search on Dave turns up..

Woa--TMI!! Thanks for not mentioning my kids' and late wife's names--they're all in there. I suppose my SS# and mother's maiden name would take another 30 seconds--maybe a minute. (Please don't show them here!)

Regarding "the truth will set you free"--it might, however, be only after you've had to hire a lawyer. As for me, I'll have to set up another user ID and email address to use for smearing vendors and people.

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

Members Avatar

830 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2014 : 18:46:48

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

Members are free to do business with whomever they wish. The Association simply provides a forum where members can freely express their opinions and recount their experiences in dealing with different companies. To the best of my knowledge, this is the only company, out of all the companies that our members have discussed, both favorably and unfavorably, that has complained about the comments of our members. This is the only company that has threatened the association with a lawsuit if the association didn't limit our members from discussing it freely. The association didn't make this rule. The company imposed it on the association under threat of a lawsuit. If anyone doesn't like the rule, they should complain to the company. I have no doubt that the association would vacate the rule, if the company would release the association from it's agreement, and hold the association harmless for any negative comments that might be made in the future by it's members.

It should go without saying that the opinions that are expressed by our members about any company are the members' own opinions. They are not the opinion of the Association. It is not the purpose of the association to approve or disapprove of any business. Any member who intends to enter into a high-dollar business transaction with any company ought to investigate the company online, regardless of any opinions or anecdotes that have been recounted by any of our members. Anyone who finds negative input and chooses to ignore it does so at his own risk.

AS usual Milby is way off base and is pontificating on a subject where he has no knowledge.
The officers dealt with this matter in a reasonable manor that protected the members and the association.
All else is hyperbole.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2014 : 20:26:02

quote:
Originally posted by Peregrine

AS usual Milby is way off base and is pontificating on a subject where he has no knowledge.

For those who don't know, I earned my degree of Juris Doctor (law) in 1968, and practiced law continuously until my retirement a few years ago. I specialized in trials and appeals, and in all aspects of administrative law, and taught dozens of seminars on administrative law to other lawyers, judges, legislators, and many other government officials from all across the United States. I was admitted to the practice of law at every level of the state and federal courts in the US, including the State and US Supreme Courts, and wrote many hundreds of briefs and legal memorandums at every level, including the US Supreme Court. I wrote hundreds of pages of laws, which were subsequently enacted, and not one word of any of my laws has ever been ruled invalid, including a law that was the first of it's kind anywhere in the US, and which received an award for innovation.

You're partially right, John. One of us doesn't know what he's talking about.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2014 : 20:58:27

Sheesh... I'm the one who doesn't know... But I think Steve does.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2014 : 22:13:40

Like I said ...How about a nice game of chess ?

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2014 : 06:53:17

Sorry Dave,I just wanted to prove how easy it is to get info on anybody. If it's on the internet it there forever. One of the reasons I don't get involved in social media like Facebook,Twitter etc. With a little more effort I could probably find out what brand toilet paper you use.

Now what was this hijacked topic about?

Edited by - islander on 12/17/2014 06:55:00

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2014 : 08:04:22

I know... I've looked myself up. I don't want to know what I'd get if I were willing to pay the small amounts a few sites are asking for a "full report." It's coming from more than FB and Twitter, judging from what they have--like my addresses going back to the '70s...

Oh, ya, sails... Don't need any...

Sarge out.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2014 : 09:46:31

I signed up for an account with one of the major package delivery companies. As part of the application, they asked me to confirm the birthdate of my daughter's father-in-law. That was bizarre (the question, not the father-in-law.)

Edited by - OJ on 12/18/2014 11:22:39

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2014 : 18:31:16

OJ, that sounds like a "security question" you selected at some time (and forgot about). Otherwise, how would they know you have one daughter, and that she has a father-in-law (if any of those are true)?? And how would they know the answer for you to "confirm" it?

I happen to have two daughters with fathers-in-law, and I have no idea of the answer for either.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2014 : 11:31:15

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

. . . that sounds like a "security question" you selected at some time . . .

Or a security question my daughter answered.

Some clerk at my bank accidently opened my account profile to change the mailing address to Philadelphia. So now Philadelphia pops up anytime someone does a background check on me.

Edited by - on

ct95949
Captain

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Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2014 : 19:54:49

quote:
AS usual Milby is way off base and is pontificating on a subject where he has no knowledge.
The officers dealt with this matter in a reasonable manor that protected the members and the association.
All else is hyperbole.

Ouch

.
I thought everything Steve said was reasonable and good advice. I've been getting good advice from Steve for many years so as far as I'm concerned he can pontificate all he wants. Isn't this forum for exchanging information?

Edited by - ct95949 on 12/18/2014 20:04:02

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2014 : 21:10:47

Ya Craig & Lori... There's some history here -- too much to go into. I suggest you draw your conclusion here and we all move on.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2014 : 15:27:45

This thread is becoming toxic does not (IMHO) represent the spirit of the majority of the group.

Perhaps it is time to simply delete the entire thread . . .

Edited by - on

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2014 : 15:49:58

I've kept my council on this one so far, but I second OJ's last comment.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2014 : 16:19:17

quote:
Originally posted by OJ

This thread is becoming toxic does not (IMHO) represent the spirit of the majority of the group.

Perhaps it is time to simply delete the entire thread . . .

Why delete it? It provides a thorough explanation of why the name of a certain sail marketer is deleted. Some members weren't aware of that, and appeared to be annoyed at the thought that the association was censoring them. Dave provided a basic explanation of the general law relating to the exemption of the association from liability for comments made by members. I offered some suggestions on how members can insulate themselves from liability by simply being sure that any assertion they make is true, and that they can prove it, and by thinking about those things before they submit a post. There's some useful information in this thread. So what if a member decides to say something that some of us don't want to hear? Are we going to delete every thread where some member says something that some of us don't want to hear? We're all grownups, and we can cope with such things. Sometimes, for a greater good, grownups have to talk about some things that they'd rather not.

The remarks were directed at me, and I responded by stating facts, and refrained from countering with insults. It doesn't bother me, so I don't see why it should bother anyone else.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2014 : 06:50:47

This might be a good opportunity to explain some things. John accused me of "pontificating," and I can imagine that some people might be like-minded. Many years ago, early in the life of the C25 online forum, I noticed that the answers that were given to a member's questions were characteristically one or two sentences, poorly thought out and incomplete. I believe that members want, and deserve, the best answers we can give them, so I take the time to answer their questions as thoroughly as I can. If some negative person thinks that is pontificating, I don't really care. Sometimes a member's response to my answer will indicate that he doesn't completely understand the principles, so I try to explain it so that he does understand it. The main reason why people come here is for information, and I think we should give them as much as we can. When people praise this forum, they talk about the good advice that is available here. People like information.

I also frequently see questions that are asked here, but that receive no response at all for an inordinate period of time, so I offer the best answer I can, because I believe every question that is asked here deserves to be answered, promptly. People, especially new or prospective members, don't like their questions to be ignored.

When the C250 and Capri 25 forums were initiated, questions were often asked there, but we didn't have enough members who were able to answer the questions that were asked. I had sailed both boats a little, and knew enough to be able to provide a little information, so I gave people the best answers I could. After awhile, we acquired enough new members with more experience with those boats than me, and with better information, so I stopped answering questions on those forums.

Dave and others are now habitually providing complete, well-thought-out answers now, so I have been letting them carry the ball. Occasionally, I will disagree with an opinion expressed by someone, and say so. Some folks take offense at being disagreed with, but they shouldn't. In sailing, there are often many different ways of accomplishing the same thing. People ought to at least be aware of the different choices that they make, so they can try both ways and decide what works best for them.

Some of our most interesting and useful discussions take place when we have disagreements about techniques of sailing or seamanship, because that's when people are the most intellectually engaged in the discussion, but insecure people who can't tolerate being disagreed with should probably stay out of the discussion.

If my "pontificating" bothers you, don't read my posts. My posts are written for the people who want, and appreciate, information. Better yet, if any of you who think I am pontificating would start providing better and more thorough answers, maybe I wouldn't have to.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2014 : 07:54:26

<>

I have always appreciated that fact and impressed that you take the time to share...tIME WELL SPENT ... And Thank You!

Toxic??? Hell.. Toxic is trying to glean information from XOXO... Perspective from half sentences like mine. I am often only able to post short thoughts between work.. never allowing this forum to interrupt my work I engage everyone with the "short Little attention span theater".

I learn more from those exchanges than from a thousand "Have a Great Days".

Edited by - redeye on 12/20/2014 11:42:19

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2014 : 08:10:51

Very well thought-out responses, Steve. Thanks!

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2014 : 16:02:01

Well, I'm still not sure I understand how a sailboat resolves the available forces so that it moves in a direction that would seem to be counter to them!

(Never mind--don't even try!)

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

Members Avatar

830 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2014 : 21:24:26

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

quote:
Originally posted by Peregrine

AS usual Milby is way off base and is pontificating on a subject where he has no knowledge.

For those who don't know, I earned my degree of Juris Doctor (law) in 1968, and practiced law continuously until my retirement a few years ago. I specialized in trials and appeals, and in all aspects of administrative law, and taught dozens of seminars on administrative law to other lawyers, judges, legislators, and many other government officials from all across the United States. I was admitted to the practice of law at every level of the state and federal courts in the US, including the State and US Supreme Courts, and wrote many hundreds of briefs and legal memorandums at every level, including the US Supreme Court. I wrote hundreds of pages of laws, which were subsequently enacted, and not one word of any of my laws has ever been ruled invalid, including a law that was the first of it's kind anywhere in the US, and which received an award for innovation.

You're partially right, John. One of us doesn't know what he's talking about.

I don’t know what it’s like to sit at home with nothing to do but be “retired”.
Posts that make up unsubstantiated claims out of whole cloth are sad to see. Of all the things Mr. Milby claims to have accomplished it would be interesting to see why google can’t find any of them.

The fact is...
Mr. Milby was not privy to the officer’s discussions dealing with venders posting on the forum or venders that felt slighted by posts on the forum.
A policy paper (I wrote it) was published that we as officers are adhering to.
As I stated above the Officers dealt correctly with the issue and protected the members and the Association.

I hope your new sail lives up to your expectations.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2014 : 10:25:17

quote:
Originally posted by Peregrine
[font=Comic Sans MS][size=2][navy]I don’t know what it’s like to sit at home with nothing to do but be “retired”.

I have a wonderful, full life in retirement! I have two sailboats - one to race in Annapolis and one to cruise. During the summers I sail 3 days a week on average, racing, cruising and doing long distance yacht deliveries with friends, sightseeing up and down the east coast, and dining in many good Chesapeake Bay area restaurants and yacht clubs. During the winters, I visit with friends and family, attend winter boat shows, and travel. I'm presently planning a trip to Ireland.

quote:

Posts that make up unsubstantiated claims out of whole cloth are sad to see. Of all the things Mr. Milby claims to have accomplished it would be interesting to see why google can’t find any of them.

In view of the crude tone of the private email that you recently sent me, and the fact that you are, by your own admission, busying yourself researching my private life, I don't think it's a good idea to hand you information that might enable you to commit mischief. Each time you question my credibility, and each time I prove you wrong, you diminish your own credibility.

If the members of the Association tell me that they doubt my representations, and that they want me to prove that I am a lawyer, or that I have received the awards that I have described, then I'll send photos of my certificates of admission to the bar and photos of the awards to a disinterested member of the association. I'll let the members decide whether they want me to provide proof of those matters.

quote:
The fact is...
Mr. Milby was not privy to the officer’s discussions dealing with venders posting on the forum or venders that felt slighted by posts on the forum.
A policy paper (I wrote it) was published that we as officers are adhering to.
As I stated above the Officers dealt correctly with the issue and protected the members and the Association.

I didn't need to be there to know what happened. The Commodore posted an explanation of his decision online. I haven't faulted him for his decision. On the contrary, I have defended him, even though a legal professional would have handled it differently.

Edited by - on

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
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