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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Engine Size

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Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/08/2014 : 07:05:54

Considering the purchase of a new (to me) engine.
My requirements: must be a stroke, electric start and capable of accepting cockpit controls. I was offered a 5hp/long shaft with pull start and although it has none of the requirements I wanted except for being a 4 stroke I'm thinking it's going to be dirt cheap. I'm thinking this only because I know the owner and he picked it up new for a song and hasn't used it in years. It has 3 hrs on it.

Questions:
Should I be looking for a long shaft or "extra" long shaft?
Is 5hp too small for lake use? Our lake is about 8 miles long and points northwest so winds can get the water choppy at times.

Thank you!

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2014 : 07:45:49

Hi Kyle,
Different engine manufacturers use different names to describe the shaft length. What is important is that the shaft length needs to be around 28 inches.
As far as a 5hp engine, that is probably too little hp for a C25. Catalina recommended 7.5 to 10 hp for the C25. 5 hp won't push the boat against a head wind or current. In fact just a couple weeks ago several of us witnessed a boat trying to get into our marina with an engine that was not up to the task. With the engine running at max throttle, he was still motoring backward due to a 20 knot wind.
Bill Holcomb - C25, Snickerdoodle, #4839

Edited by - on

Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2014 : 09:01:13

I thought 25" was the extra long...?

Thanks, Bill, I'll keep looking.

Edited by - on

blanik
Navigator

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Canada
210 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2014 : 09:12:11

i have a 6hp two stroke and sometimes wished i had a 9.9 (on very windy days when i have to motor upwind for schedule reasons)

Edited by - blanik on 11/08/2014 09:12:52

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2014 : 09:44:57

quote:
Originally posted by Kper

I thought 25" was the extra long...?

There are two numbers: The actual shaft length and the "transom height." Manufacturers use the latter, which is the recommendation that puts the "antiventilation plate" at least 2-3" below the bottom of a boat so its's in the water on plane. Most actual shaft lengths (measured from the top of the inside of the clamps to the antiventilation plate) is usually 2.5 - 2.7" longer. My Honda XLX shaft length was 27.7", and the brochure referenced the transom height as 25".

I agree that 5hp is a little small for your conditions, and the "long" (22") shaft makes it worse. 8 - 9.9 is better for you. My 2003 Honda 8 was the same engine as the Honda 9.9, except for the cam timing. The 9.9 is cammed for higher HP, and the 8 is cammed for higher torque--both with high-thrust props. A Honda company rep recommended the 8 to me for our heavy displacement hull. Either will move the boat through just about anything--I've proved that to myself in some really stinky conditions on Long Island Sound.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/08/2014 09:45:49

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2014 : 20:40:58

I agree that 8 is all you need. Most of us have 9.9s because it is a very popular engine size with a wide variety of configurations available.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2014 : 06:02:24

Ditto on the variety of configurations. I would have preferred the Nissan/Tohatsu 8 hp, plenty for the C-25, but it is not available in XL length.
I had a 5 hp Merc on the boat very briefly. It was fine for getting in and out of the marina and motoring in little to no wind, but is not enough to offset a strong head wind. Also, the 20" shaft was not long enough.
Tohatsu does make a 6 hp Sail Pro motor with the XL shaft and with an alternator, but I don't think electric start is an option.
Check out Online Outboards.

Edited by - dmpilc on 11/12/2014 06:12:18

Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2014 : 18:50:22

I don't know how the horse power relates, but I have a merc 8 hp 2 stroke and it was a little weak until I switched to a high thrust prop and now it works great.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2014 : 19:47:20

quote:
Originally posted by Akenumber

I don't know how the horse power relates, but I have a merc 8 hp 2 stroke and it was a little weak until I switched to a high thrust prop and now it works great.

The smaller the engine, the more important are the characteristics of the prop. A standard prop on a 2-stroke 8hp outboard is intended to let it push a dinghy onto plane and up to maybe 20 mph. The higher the hp or torque, the more the outboard can overcome the limits of the prop. Alternatively, a high-thrust (lower pitch, larger diameter and/or more blades) prop will better suit the motor to a displacement hull. My Honda 8 was optimized for torque, had a low-pitch, 4-blade, larger diameter prop, and pushed the boat easily into 30+ kt. winds and 3-4' short chop that wanted to come over the bow. When I used reverse as a brake while entering our slip (a little on the "hot" side to counteract cross-wind), it was as if we ran into a pillow. "Voyager" Bruce can call me down if I'm exaggerating...

BTW, while being the identical piece of hardware except for less useless hp and more useful torque, it was priced something like $300 below the 9.9 hp. Marketing!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/12/2014 20:29:40

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2014 : 04:33:40

My math, 8800lb boat, means 15hp or greater outboard. Just saying. By the way Catalina must have really had some serious quality control issues to have the displacement numbers off that much.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2014 : 07:34:17

quote:
Originally posted by shnool

My math, 8800lb boat... Catalina must have really had some serious quality control issues to have the displacement numbers off that much.

???

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2014 : 14:32:41

Richard M,

Your signature picture looks like it belongs on the cover of a book. A murder mystery or love betrayal perhaps.

Edited by - OJ on 11/13/2014 14:34:16

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2014 : 19:51:13

A C-25, fully loaded, together with a trailer won't come close to 8800 lbs. No way!

Edited by - dmpilc on 11/13/2014 19:53:14

BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2014 : 20:15:36

I have an 8HP Tohatsu, 4-Stroke. Last season I replaced the prop with a "high thrust" 4-Blade with a suggested diameter and pitch for a heavy boat. The stock prop is more suited for a small john boat. It made a huge difference. The old prop would push the boat OK up to 1/2 throttle and beyond that made not significant difference. The new prop provides constant speed through the full range of throttle. I motor a bit until I reach my sailing area on the lake so getting there quickly and back means a lot to me. Due to the heavy weight of the C25, I would suggest a 9.8 if you can get one.

Regards,

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2014 : 07:41:11

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

quote:
Originally posted by shnool

My math, 8800lb boat... Catalina must have really had some serious quality control issues to have the displacement numbers off that much.
???

Others here have insisted that the displacement numbers for the Catalina 25 swing, wing, and fixed, are all closer to 8000lbs. Including arguing you need at least a 2500 (3/4 ton) pickup to tow the boat because of this. If this is a real number (my sarcasm now soundly reinstated), then nothing but a 15hp outboard will do!

For the record, we have 3 Catalina 25s in our club... One is towed with a tahoe, another with a Honda Pilot, the last with a 1500 pickup.

The actual figure of #4500 is pretty darned close to true displacement weight.

And back to the OPs original post, a long shaft saildrive model 6hp would work quite nicely (they come with the extra torque prop)... go to 8HP long shaft for some extra margin of error, perhaps also get a upgraded prop for it. I can also see why someone would opt for a 9.9, since the actual weight of the 9.9 is the same as the 8. The only issue I see with that is running it WOT is kind of a waste and these little motors really should be run WOT if you are to ever want to use the charging circuit for anything useful.

Edited by - shnool on 12/02/2014 07:45:53

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2014 : 08:51:05

quote:
Originally posted by shnool

[quote]Originally posted by Stinkpotter

Others here have insisted that the displacement numbers for the Catalina 25 swing, wing, and fixed, are all closer to 8000lbs.

Nobody has even suggested that. The numbers discussed in various towing threads include the trailer and gear, and some have been based on putting the loaded trailer on a truck scale. If 4500# is representative of the basic displacement (to which I agree), then after they add a dual-axle trailer, an outboard, and gear, they're way over Honda's maximum towing capacity of a 4WD Pilot (4500#), which suggests they're putting others at risk on the highway, not to mention over-stressing their vehicle and perhaps voiding their warranty.

Back to outboards, Extra-long (25-28") is the recommendation for the C-25 on all but a small lake. Different makes have different models that are identical in displacement. The Honda 8 and 9.9 alternators from around 2001 on put out about double that of the other brands, although they are heavier than some. I never ran mine above about 2/3 throttle--usually around half. I believe it put out around 6 amps at that speed, and 12 at WOT.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/02/2014 08:58:15

Heartbeat
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2014 : 13:58:45

I used an old 4-horse Sailmaster (2-stroke long shaft - was built before they were making extra long shafts) for a couple of years. It's slower, but we always got where we needed to go. As I recall, I did a summer of double handed races that year. We trekked 9 miles to the course start every Monday after work and made it every time - even through some rough weather.

When the 4 died I bought a long shaft 8 horse Tohatsu. It is overkill in my mind, and we could have gotten by with the 6.

For the right price, I would use a 5 horse long shaft. It's probably a good bit more power than that old, tired 4. I have kept saying someday I'll rebuild that 4 and use it on race day - the lighter weight is a big advantage in my mind.

YMMV

Matt

Edited by - on

WesAllen
Navigator

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USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2014 : 17:01:48

I have the Merc 9.9 and am very happy. Xlong shaft of course. Getting to the weight I ran mine over the scale on the trailer and weighed in at just over 6200 lbs. with the trailer. The trailer weighed 1100 lbs. with the boat off. (motor was on boat and full of gear I normally have in it.)

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2014 : 22:06:19

That is about the same as mine.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2014 : 04:18:27

OT. Nice Burgee Dave B.

Paul

Edited by - on

JanS48
Navigator

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USA
141 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2014 : 22:19:49

Greetings - newbie here, I just got an 82 C25. It came with an old Nissan 8 which is corroding away. The boat has a very robust OB bracket I was thinking of going beyond the 8 or 9.9 and going with a 20. There are just too many summer days where I'd go out anyway with no wind if I had decent power.

Back to the question, I did have a Honda 5 on it briefly and although it did push it along it was painfully slow. Go bigger. IMHO.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2014 : 23:34:11

More horsepower won't help with a displacement hull. You are limited to a littler over 6 knots by waterline length. Approaching full throttle with a 9.9 just makes the stern squat, it can't climb over the bow wave and plane. Somewhere between 1/2 and 3/4 throttle gets you to hull speed.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 12/21/2014 23:40:20

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2014 : 04:05:07

Welcome aboard Jan.

You'll be surprised how well your boat sails even in light winds.

If you edit your profile and add a couple of details to your signature it will help folks that reply.

eg. Keel type, Sailing Location.

Again... Welcome!

Paul

Oh! Did you register your boat with us yet?

Edited by - britinusa on 12/22/2014 04:05:38

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2014 : 11:42:28

Looks like Evinrude has released a 6hp XL shaft 1 cyl 4stroke..

I wanna see one of these but kinda wary of a thumper ( one piston )

Anybody used one???

Edited by - on

ftworthsailor
Captain

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USA
279 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2014 : 11:47:12

I have the Mercury 6hp, 4stroke, long shaft, single cylinder "thumper" and love it! It runs and performs great.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2014 : 11:54:37

<< Mercury 6hp, 4stroke, long shaft, single cylinder "thumper" and love it! >>

Thanks.. I may have to look harder at a thumper.. I don't think they thump anymore..

I had one of those for a little while ( short shaft ) and it really seemed like a really cool little engine... started and smooth and easy as butter.. I wish I had just added a longer foot to it but I had 2 other running outboards at the time.

Edited by - on

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