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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Swing Keel Depth

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TheC4pt
Deckhand

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3 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/28/2014 : 09:04:09

I'm considering buying a 1984 Catalina 25 with a swing keel. The spec says the draft with the keel up is 2'8''. But looking at this particular boat on its trailer, it seems the keel doesn't fully retract flush against he hull. The current owner says the winch won't pull it up much higher. He reckoned I should reasonably expect the boat to draw 3ft 6in with the keel up.

Is this typical? might the cable be improperly attached to the keel preventing it from pulling in snugly against the hull?

To further complicate my buying decision, I've only got 4ft of water at my dock at low tide. On top of that I've got a foot of mud so a draft of 3ft 6in would leave my keel sitting in the mud and dangerously close to the hard bottom. Is it a big problem if the keel sits in the mud? if the boat's draft were really 2ft 8in I would feel better about keeping it at my dock.

Any input would be appreciated!

Edited by - on

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2014 : 09:46:43

quote:
Originally posted by TheC4pt

I'm considering buying a 1984 Catalina 25 with a swing keel. The spec says the draft with the keel up is 2'8''. But looking at this particular boat on its trailer, it seems the keel doesn't fully retract flush against he hull. The current owner says the winch won't pull it up much higher. He reckoned I should reasonably expect the boat to draw 3ft 6in with the keel up.

Is this typical? might the cable be improperly attached to the keel preventing it from pulling in snugly against the hull?

To further complicate my buying decision, I've only got 4ft of water at my dock at low tide. On top of that I've got a foot of mud so a draft of 3ft 6in would leave my keel sitting in the mud and dangerously close to the hard bottom. Is it a big problem if the keel sits in the mud? if the boat's draft were really 2ft 8in I would feel better about keeping it at my dock.

Any input would be appreciated!

Here's a link to a photo of the keel raised most of the way, but not all the way. When all the way raised, the leading edge of the keel will be parallel to the bottom of the hull. Catalina's spec takes into account that the keel retracts into a slot but does not fully retract into the hull.

http://whichsailboat.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/catalina25swingkeel.jpg?w=300&h=224

Here's a drawing of the keel showing the tunnel that the keel raises into partway.

I suppose it would be possible that something could prevent the bottom of the keel from raising into the slot. If the boats on a trailer, you should be able to see if something is preventing the bottom of the keel from going up all the way. I'm sure the more experienced guys on here will tell you more.

Edited by - sethp001 on 09/28/2014 09:54:06

jduck00
Captain

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USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2014 : 12:27:01

A bad winch can do that as well. I just commented on another post about a slipping winch. If the friction disk is worn, the winch can only take on so much weight. The force on the winch goes up the closer you get the keel to fully retracted. I had mine fail at the marina, and it would only get the keel up about 75% of the way before the clutch would slip and the keel would drop a few inches.

You might ask the fellow what happens when he tries to raise it. If he says the winch is slipping then its not a hard a fix. Just replace the winch. Being a swinger, you will want to go ahead and inspect
eplace the liftingpivot hardware. Swingers are nice, but they do have added maintenance. Just had mine out today and had one hard and one soft grounding. Shouldn't have tried going out at dead low tide :)

You might want to take a look at the turning ball and make sure it isn't worn through and the cable hitting the hull. That still would probably stop it a few inches from the top. If you can snap a picture of the keel around the cable attachment and up in the bottom of the hull where the cable goes up.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2014 : 14:23:35

How about an F 27?

Edited by - pastmember on 09/28/2014 14:33:22

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2014 : 14:41:29

Here is a photo of the keel retracted into the trunk. It only retracts a few inches. The draft with the keel in this position should be about the advertised 2'8". My boat occasionally would sit on a sand bottom with an extremely low tide.

Edited by - on

TheC4pt
Deckhand

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3 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2014 : 20:30:38

thanks, that helps a lot. I will need to inspect the winch and the keel's slot more closely.

Is it possible that the boat hull has absorbed enough water to make it heavier and sit lower in the water to the point that it noticeably increase its draft? I've read mixed opinions on whether or not old boat hulls actually absorb any appreciable amounts of water. I mention this because the current owner also seemed to think that the boat weighs well over 5,000 lbs, but the dry weight is reported by Catalina as 4,150.

I have only seen the boat on its trailer. With the keel not coming up flush against the hull, I measured up to the marked waterline, and expect the draft to be around 3ft, but the current owner still seems to firmly believe it would be more than half a foot deeper than that. Just thinking out loud here trying to figure out why the current owner would think the draft is so deep once in the water.

Edited by - TheC4pt on 09/29/2014 05:30:03

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2014 : 05:54:43

You haven't said if your slip is in a tidal or a lake. Will the water level change? If the rudder is a standard rudder I would be more concerned about it. With a wing keel and I would guess with a swing keel the rudder will be the first thing to hit the mud. The C25 rudder is not known to be the sturdiest.

Edited by - on

jduck00
Captain

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USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2014 : 07:50:55

quote:
I've read mixed opinions on whether or not old boat hulls actually absorb any appreciable amounts of water.

I doubt it. The hull is solid fiberglass with a cabin insert. You would see water problems if you had that much water in there. I asked the question one time about how much water it would take to sink one of our boats and one of fellows reported that he had water the top of the seats and it was still floating. It would take a lot of weight to push the boat down a few inches.

Edited by - on

TheC4pt
Deckhand

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3 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2014 : 08:37:27

quote:
Originally posted by islander

You haven't said if your slip is in a tidal or a lake. Will the water level change? If the rudder is a standard rudder I would be more concerned about it. With a wing keel and I would guess with a swing keel the rudder will be the first thing to hit the mud. The C25 rudder is not known to be the sturdiest.

The dock is tidal, the shallow end of the dock is 3ft at low tide, and the deep end is more than 5 ft at low tide. At high tide the entire dock is plenty deep. I was thinking the rudder would be OK as long as the boat is oriented correctly, but the keel halfway down the dock would only be about 4 ft to the bottom (3ft down to loose mud) during low tide.

I've seen the kick-up rudders available online. I imagine that would solve any rudder problem if I want to orient the boat the other way.

Edited by - on

BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2014 : 18:12:09

TheC4pt -

As you can see by DaveJ's photo that the keel does not fully retract into the hull. I'm on a freshwater lake and the level drops late in the season and I've never had an issue with the keel nor the rudder. Resting in the mud slightly might be OK but not ideal. The keel is not the structural part of the boat. Even on the trailer I always lower mine so it rests on the trailer cross-member. You want to be careful not to over-crank the winch because the winch can damage or break the cable connection. I have a red paint mark on my cable so I know when I'm close to full up. When launching, the keel should be fully up so it floats off the trailer. The bunks/rollers of the trailer should be carrying most of the weight.

Regards,

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3754 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2014 : 20:14:20

As noted before, the leading edge of the keel, the bottom when retracted, should be parallel to the hull. The keel, when fully retracted , should be an inch or two above the support on the trailer. It doesn't retract fully into the hull, but it will be parallel. It is then lowered onto the trailer so the trailer supports most of its weight. You had better know exactly what the problem is if it doesn't. It could be expensive, especially if the hull has been sitting on the keel. Get under it and show us some photos.

Edited by - on

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