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Ready to jetison my outboard

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davidbloodworth
1st Mate

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USA
78 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/21/2014 : 13:04:54

I put my boat in a slip to relieve the frustration of loading and unloading it from it's trailer. Now I have had my outoard in the shop twice in the last month and it is still not right. I am done spending money with little result so it is out with the old and in with the new.
I just put my boat on Lake Texoma which is a fairly large lake that could affect my motor decision. I have a couple of questions.
1.) Being on an inland lake will I need the extra long 25" shaft or can I get by with a 20" shaft. I think my current one has a 20" shaft and I never really noticed an issue but it worked so infrequently I'm not sure.
2.) Given the fact that Lake Texoma is a fairly large lake will I be frustrated with a 6 HP outboard if I have to motor a long distanace or should I step up to an 8 HP?
Thanks,

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2014 : 13:30:17

I have never sailed on an inland lake, only Tampa Bay and the Gulf of Mexico. A 25" XL shaft outboard is mandatory.

Also, I'm not sure of the weight and price difference between motor sizes, but you will have better resale value down the road with a 9.8hp and XL shaft. Of course if you're a racer you might want the lightest motor.

What ever size motor you get, you can't go wrong with XL shaft.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2014 : 14:30:07

The 8 and 9.8 hp Tohatsu/Nissan/Mercury outboards weigh the same, about 93 lbs. The only difference is the carb.
Also, in order to get both the XL shaft and electric start, you will have to go with the 9.8. The long-shaft 6 hp (I think it is called a Sail Pro) is a sweet motor, one cylinder instead of 2 so it is lighter, maybe 59-60 lbs, and comes with a small alternator, but is pull start only. It will get you in and out of your slip and be okay for short distance motoring. I would be wary of it for long distance motoring, and any situation where you will be fighting the wind.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2014 : 14:46:58

If you expect to be pushing into 2'+ chop now and then, you'll be glad you have an XL. 6 hp should get you around OK, but if it's one cylinder, it'll be noisier than a 2-cylinder 8 hp, and you'll be running at higher throttle. (I never needed much more than half throttle with my Honda 8 high-thrust to cruise at about 5.5 knots.) On big water, I appreciated the 8, which had more torque than the Honda 9.9, which was the same engine except for the cam and the price (according to a factory rep).

Another spec to consider is charging amps, if any, depending on your expected battery use.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/21/2014 14:51:42

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2014 : 16:37:13

I have a 20" Honda 9.9. It is not the x long shaft. The motor came with the boat when I bought her. Would I want an x long shaft? Sure but so far on LI Sound having a 20" shaft hasn't been a problem and I have had the boat out in bigger seas than you could ever encounter on a lake. That said I would still recommend the XL shaft and If my engine died tomorrow that is what I would get and probably an 8HP.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2014 : 17:24:57

X-long shaft 9.8 period. Everything else is not quite right. I sail a lake in Kansas and with out the x-long you will cavitate when running in heavy wind. A C25 is a heavy boat don't pretend it is not. Also make sure you get an electric start. All of these recommendations are based on quipping your boat to be SAFE when the poo hits the fan.

Edited by - on

panhead1948
Captain

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345 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2014 : 18:22:17

I have a 7.5 Honda. I sail on Sandusky Bay on Lake Erie and I have no problems. The motor mount can be moved up or down to get the motor where you want. It is not an electric start and it start on the second pull every time.

Edited by - on

blanik
Navigator

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Canada
210 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2014 : 20:43:37

i have a 6hp 2-strokes (2 cylinders) Mercury, i do long runs with it, 4-5-6 hours at 5 kts (60-70% throttle) on calm waters, never missed a beat, always started at the mere contact of the starting switch, in 2'-3' chop or front wind it doesn't work as well but it'll get me there, the only problem i have is with >20 kts front winds, the C25 is so tail heavy that the light bow acts like a windvane, if i motor upwind in 20 kts or more the bow will grab in the wind and turn around putting the boat sideways, the only way to counteract this is to really open the throttle and fully turn the engine and the rudder, it'll will slowly bring the bow back but i sure would appreciate the extra 3.9 hp of a 9.9 engine, i'm also in the opinion that the electric starter is a must

my two cents

Edited by - on

davidbloodworth
1st Mate

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USA
78 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2014 : 21:47:39

I appreciate all of the great responses. I have not completely made up my mind but it is definitely closer.

Edited by - on

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
465 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2014 : 02:13:58

quote:
Originally posted by davidbloodworth

...I have had my outoard in the shop twice in the last month and it is still not right. I am done spending money with little result so it is out with the old and in with the new...

David;

The frustration you've expressed over the mechanical deficiencies of your current motor will seem insignificant compared with the frustration you would feel when you're stuck in a compromising situation with less motor than you need. It's a substantial investment, but one that amortizes over the many years of good service you'll enjoy. The few hundred dollars you saved would probably not seem justified when you're fighting off a lee shore at night or when you've got a long ways to go to get to a safe marina.

A Cat-25 can pitch pretty badly in a short, steep chop, which is what you can encounter even on a lake that's large enough to enjoy sailing on. The longer shaft keeps the prop in the water better without having to bury the power-head during the other half of the cycle.

And, as Richard pointed out, the extra power is invaluable when you're fighting to keep the bow into the wind, let alone just a little off the wind. Any power you expend on directional control is that much less power available to move the boat forward.

And make no mistake: you certainly can encounter enough wind and chop on a lake to make you begin to wish you weren't stuck out there in it. Part of the satisfaction of operating a sailboat is the sense of satisfaction we derive from being self-sufficient in challenging situations. But the frustration of NOT being able to cope with unanticipated conditions will make your current dissatisfaction seem like a petty annoyance.

Your outboard motor is too important to compromise by saving a few hundred dollars in initial investment.

Edited by - on

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2014 : 05:11:41

quote:
Originally posted by Lee Panza

quote:
Originally posted by davidbloodworth

...I have had my outoard in the shop twice in the last month and it is still not right. I am done spending money with little result so it is out with the old and in with the new...

Your outboard motor is too important to compromise by saving a few hundred dollars in initial investment.

It's definitely important to trust your outboard. Though on a side note, the outboard is our boat's "auxiliary" power. Obviously it will depend on how you use the boat (have children on board, tight timelines, etc.,etc.), but don't forget that you have those trusty sails on board. I've been making a point lately of sailing all the way in from the bay, down my creek and into my slip so that I am prepared in the off chance that I loose my auxiliary power.

The way I see it, it's my goal to use that engine as little as possible (a real tree hugger

). If its real windy, run a reef or just the jib. If its soo windy that the extra 1.8hp is what is going to save you, then you shouldn't have been out there in the first place.. scuttle the boat, call USCG. I definitely agree that the XL shaft is a must if buying new, though you can live without. Especially with my fat-ass haulin up the bags and the admiral on the tiller.

There's always the possibility that i'll have plans to take some friends out and the winds be completely dead. Then alright,change the cruise plan, motor around a little bit, show them the sights.

That's all. More of a human interest piece than helpful information regarding you future purchase to which I wish you luck with.

-Rob

Edited by - on

Heartbeat
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2014 : 13:26:43

Well, I'll put by $0.02 in.

I chose to get rid of the old 2-smoke back in 2007. I faced exactly the same decision you faced.

I liked the 6 horse XL. I wanted low noise, so the 2-cyl 8 or 9.8 was tempting, but still am not sure how much lower that truly is. I can say that now I can talk around the boat while under way.

I don't need (or want) electric start. (I don' understand why you need it.)

I chose the 8 hp long (not XL) shaft. No electrics, no starter. In hindsight if I could know the 6 horse is not any louder, I would have gone with it.

The shaft is fine, but I also mounted my motor mount fairly low in the water.

I have no trouble with chop or winds. I never need full throttle as ~60% throttle pushes us over 6 knots in almost any conditions. I have done some flat water full bore runs and gotten it to 6.5.

I think the 6HP would get us over 6 as well. The old motor was a 6 HP, and it got us over 6. I used a 4 HP for a while. I don't recommend it, but it will push the boat along ok. I seem to recall we got just over 5 knots out of it.

YMMV

Matt

Edited by - on

blanik
Navigator

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Canada
210 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2014 : 20:29:59

about the why i need the starter, i'd say if you're 6' tall and weight 250 lbs, the mere weight of your arm will start an engine but i'm 5'7" and weight 160 lbs so i have problems starting a lawnmower!! :-S

in two occasions i needed a very fast startup to leave a battering sea that was pushing me inches from rocks (once from a stuck anchor and once from a line that jammed my prop, barely had time to lift the engine, remove the line while hoping the engine didn't sustain damage otherwise the boat was lost) quite happily both times it started right away, not having a starter for me could have spelled disaster ;-)

Edited by - blanik on 07/22/2014 21:47:39

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2014 : 05:04:31

You would think that by now they would have compression release on engines over 5HP. Even lawnmowers have this feature. Keep in mine that having electric start adds more things that can go wrong at the worst possible time. Corrosion on the connections, Solenoid goes bad,Dead battery, Starter motor, Starter gear etc. Then the back up system involves removing the cover, Finding the back up pull cord and depending on the manufacture figuring out how to assemble it all. Not exactly a speedy thing to do. A pull cord is a simpler system but I guess the cord could also break. With all the possible things that can go wrong it's a wonder we dare take the boat out!

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2014 : 09:55:37

One of the nice features of the Tohatsu/Nissan 9.8 electric start is that it also has manual pull start without having to remove the engine cowl.

Edited by - on

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2014 : 11:10:03

Have you considered these? Somebody on here posted about good results with one awhile back.

http://www.torqeedo.com/us/electric-outboards/cruise-r-dinghies-motor-boats-sailboats-up-to-4-tons

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2014 : 11:18:01

Regarding electric start. I'm a big fan, but I still pull start my Tohatsu every few starts just to make sure it's working correctly. I also make Rita (5', 120lbs) pull start it every once in a while too, so she knows how in an emergency. She can also (barely) tilt the engine up, but it's not easy for her.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2014 : 12:52:21

quote:
Originally posted by dmpilc

One of the nice features of the Tohatsu/Nissan 9.8 electric start is that it also has manual pull start without having to remove the engine cowl.

...as do the Hondas. Yamaha is the notable violator.

Another advantage of the electric starter to us was my Admiral could also easily start the engine. I have to admit I liked it, too--a lot! And on the Honda, it comes with a 12 amp alternator--strongest in the class.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/23/2014 12:56:03

davidbloodworth
1st Mate

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USA
78 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2014 : 19:05:35

I appreciate all of the input. Unfortunately everyone must have decided to jettison their outboards at the same time. I ordered a 9.8 extra long shaft electric start Tohatsu today but It is on back order for a few weeks but I couldn't go to the lake anyway.
Thanks again.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2014 : 19:32:55

You won't regret the wait.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2014 : 20:57:07

Well done, now let's talk motor mounts,,, 4 spring Garhauer from catalinadirect.com

Edited by - on

davidbloodworth
1st Mate

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USA
78 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2014 : 22:18:56

Luckily I have a 4 spring mount already.

Edited by - on

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2014 : 05:11:30

Wow, $1000 bucks more than the 6hp. It definitely makes sense that when you do have to replace something, you replace it with the best. I just hope I never have to replace my little bessie.

Edited by - on

davidbloodworth
1st Mate

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USA
78 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2014 : 07:34:01

Replacing my outboard was not on my agenda this year either however I am way not comfortable sailing into my slip when this is the first time I have ever had it in one. I do agree it is a skill I will work on because you never know when you might have to but I would prefer to practice on my schedule rather than have to sail to get in and out. Sure was looking forward to a roller furler.....Maybe next time!!

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2014 : 11:33:13

I think I am going to put my '08 Tohatsu 5hp MFS5BS up for sale to get a Tohatsu 8hp with electric start. Remember that I sail a Starwind 223 now not a C 25.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2014 : 12:49:23

Nor do I sail a C-25 any more... My latest outboard has electric start (for a 3.5 liter V6).

Edited by - on

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