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Backing up issues

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stang9150
Navigator

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USA
138 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/02/2014 : 08:56:14

Ok I have a newbie question here. My 78 cat has the outboard mounted on the port side.I have nothing but open water behind me for 500 yards,so I can back straight back. The problem is the boat won't go straight back,it will most times kick the bow to starboard and the stern will go to port causing me make a sharp turn out of the slip and getting way to close to my neighbors boats. This will cause issues and I start making to many over corrections with the tiller and the outboard together.I think it's maybe something simple like I'm turning the outboard the wrong way. Should I use just the outboard and leave the tiller amidships? This is causing issues with me trying to go out without one other person to stand on the bow and push off anything I may hit. Any advice?

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2014 : 09:27:51

You're experiencing "prop-walk", which in reverse pulls the stern to port. (The boat then pivots on the keel so the bow goes to starboard.

Two suggestions:

1. Turn the outboard as if you were backing the boat slightly to starboard before throttling up. Leave the rudder centered. The angle of the thrust will counteract the prop-walk.

2. Throttle up in short bursts, allowing some time to coast between them, until the boat is moving at the speed you want. Then you can maintain a moderate throttle at that speed without noticeable prop-walk. Then if you want to turn sharply to starboard in reverse, throttle down and use the rudder while coasting. Don't over-steer with the rudder--if you turn it past about 45 deg., it becomes more of a brake than a rudder. (The boat will turn more readily to port with the power on in reverse.)

That should do it--you'll get the feel. In forward gear, the prop-walk is the reverse (pushing the stern to starboard and the bow to port until the boat gets under way.

One way to remember what prop-walk tries to do: The boat will tend to turn to port at very low speed or from a stop in both forward and reverse. (It pushes the stern to starboard in forward, and pulls it to port in reverse.)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/02/2014 09:58:13

stang9150
Navigator

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USA
138 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2014 : 09:48:55

Thanks so much for the information.I will give it a go maybe sometime this weekend.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2014 : 10:20:37

Joe,
I used to have to back all the down my fairway (only about 200 yards or so) because I had nowhere to turn when I was leaving the dock. The fairway is about 35-40' wide with boats on both sides. I found that keeping the outboard amidships or turned slightly away from the rudder to counteract the off-center force allowed me to back up reasonably well. You have to keep a firm grip on the tiller because it wants to kick to either side, and quite violently if you let it.

The trick is to make small corrections and keep your speed low so mistakes aren't compounded and the force on the rudder is minimized making it easier to make those small corrections.

I tended to not use the outboard for steering because it seemed to make maneuvering much more difficult. I'd recommend finding an area where you can practice without fear of hitting anything so you can learn how the boat reacts to different angles of the rudder & outboard as you're backing down.

Of course we're talking about two different boats, but I think the principles are the same.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2014 : 10:35:41

Take the boat out AWAY from the docks and PRACTICE backing up. Do it for half an hour, then go sailing, sometime during the day, PRACTICE it again.

Then, go down to your boat one day, and PRACTICE backing out, go back in, back out again...

The thing most people forget is they only leave and go back in ONCE a sail, and then complain they have trouble doing it.

The ONLY way you're gonna get good at it is to PRACTICE.

Edited by - on

stang9150
Navigator

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USA
138 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2014 : 11:06:22

True I understand the one time a sail thing.I will get some practice in next time I go out.Thanks

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2014 : 11:31:01

You have a lot more control over the boat with an outboard VS an inboard. An inboard needs to have forward momentum in order to steer. With the outboard you can pivot the boat without forward or reverse momentum. I usually move the rudder on the same angle as the outboard working them in unison when backing. Having the rudder centered just deflects the thrust of the prop-wash sending the thrust down the center of the boat. In your case this will happen when backing out to port. A stated above Practice, Practice,

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2014 : 18:18:35

quote:
inboard needs to have forward momentum in order to steer

That is correct only in reverse. An inboard drives propwash over the rudder in forward and a boat can be easily spun within its length, the rudder accomplishing what pivoting the outboard does.

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2014 : 05:20:38

Dave your right. My mistake. I meant reverse. Forward on an inboard the rudder will direct the prop wash but in reverse the boat has to get a little momentum before the rudder will start to steer.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2014 : 05:49:44

quote:
Originally posted by islander

Dave your right. My mistake. I meant reverse. Forward on an inboard the rudder will direct the prop wash but in reverse the boat has to get a little momentum before the rudder will start to steer.

That's when you can use prop-walk, which has the greatest effect when the boat is not moving, moving very slowly, or moving opposite to the way you have it in gear. Gun it in reverse, and the stern pulls to port. Gun it in forward and the stern kicks to starboard. Fail to recognize this, and you can get into all kinds of aggravation trying to dock on your starboard side or navigate a narrow slip. An outboard can compensate by directing its thrust--with an inboard, you just learn to use it.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/03/2014 05:56:14

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2014 : 13:37:48

When leaving my slip, before engaging reverse on the outboard, I first shove off from the dock getting myself going straight back with some steerageway on the rudder and when I'm almost halfway out of the slip, I put the outboard in reverse.

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stang9150
Navigator

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USA
138 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2014 : 13:42:22

Do you push off by yourself or do you have crew push off?

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2014 : 13:45:35

I'm a singlehanded sailor, so its just me. Even when I have crew aboard, I still do everything.

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stang9150
Navigator

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USA
138 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2014 : 14:45:16

So you just push the bow off and walk back to the cockpit I assume? I got a lot of things to try soon lots of good advice thanks guys.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2014 : 17:51:35

This may not be completely applicable, but when I'm going out by myself it depends on the state of the tide & current (and wind) on the river my marina is on. If it's relatively slack, I'll set the rudder amidships with my auto-pilot, walk the boat out & rotate it 90+ degrees so it's pointing upriver (to the entrance of the fairway). I get the nose into the river current so it wants to push it away from my slip-mate's boat, while keeping the stern off the bow of my across-the dock neighbor's boat. Then I push the boat forward & hop on at the same time, throttle up a bit to get some steerage and ooze along till I'm well clear of the docks near my port side.

OTOH, if the current is running, I do it completely differently because it's nigh on impossible to arm wrestle the boat into the current and keep it under control. In this case I back out under power, using both the rudder & the outboard to maneuver with till I get straightened up in the fairway, making small, low power maneuvering with short turning bursts to pivot around. I've learned to let the boat drift to starboard a few degrees from straight down the fairway because otherwise I always seemed to accelerate and sheer to port (which is exactly how I hit my neighbor's boat several years ago, I didn't get straight enough in the fairway before trying to open up the throttle). An expensive lesson.

If Rita's with me, it's much easier, we just back out, she fends off the slip-mate's boat from our bow (we're only about 18"-24" apart in the slip), and I can concentrate on getting the boat straightened up in the fairway and moving forward safely.

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2014 : 18:40:29

I find it "scary" that anyone, anytime, would push their boat out without being ON the boat. The chance of the boat leaving without you could be considerable.

Learn to use the motor and the tiller.

Much safer.

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stang9150
Navigator

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USA
138 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2014 : 11:47:56

Well i went out this weekend twice and had no issues at all. I left the tiller alone and just used the outboard in small corrections and she backed straight out both time with no Drama.Thanks for all the good advice,it sure helped

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