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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Problems with my Head

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DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/17/2014 : 05:29:59

Hi again,

I figured I would put something up here for anyone that might be or might have done work on the plumbing system on their boat.

First off my boat is in my signature and is equipped with a Jabsco marine toilet with holding tank.

Yesterday I was working on flushing out the water tank and lines, got both sinks to work and got any crud out of the tank.Unfortunately I could not get any water to draw into the toilet. If i threw some water in there then pumped, It extracted it.

The thing that was really weird to me is that water that would drain from the sink in the head would somehow come out of the top inlet/outlet on the head pump on the other side of the boat.

After trying to find decent schematics on the entire plumbing system I did not come up with much because I am still very confused to how this whole system circulates/drains, including the thru-hulls.

Looking at a Catalina Direct part list drawing for the Jabsco unit it looked like a hose was supposed to go from that top inlet and horseshoe around to the top of the toilet bowl which might be an issue as I am missing that, but then that would mean to flush the toilet I would pump the hand sink. Seems a little wacky, no?

Any and all help would be appreciated in understanding this system.

Thank you,
-Robert

P.s. Wind blew all the water out of the chesapeake yesterday. keel in the mud.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2014 : 06:00:28

If your boat is like mine, the sink drains to the same thru hull as the head intake. If you block up the sink drain the head will flush better. One option is to put a valve in the sink drain that could be opened or closed.

My option is to carry a few one gallon water bottles behind the head and use that water to flush it. The advantage to that, is the holding tank doesn't get as stinky from the little creatures in the sea water going in with the flush water.......

Edited by - on

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2014 : 06:14:33

Woa, Ok so I thought the head used water from the tank. To be honest Im not sure if that thru-hull(the one under the v-berth) is open or not and I've been too scared to mess with it. I keep picturing trying to turn in, snapping it off, then sinking the boat lol.

So this makes a lot more sense now. I believe I do need to replace the missing hose if I want it to function as designed and open the thru-hull. Or, splash some water in it. Kinda like the water idea except for extended trips where storage space is too limited to carry water just for flushing.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2014 : 07:44:09

I've heard of others who sometimes need to put a stopper in the sink to get the head pump to draw.

Your comment about using the water from the tank is worth a comment... My observations (via my nose) on many friends' boats are that flushing with salt water creates an inescapable sulfur smell, no matter what kind of treatment is used. My head, which does not get a lot of use, is flushed from my 20 gallon tank, which isn't used for much else. There has been no detectable odor from my system in seven years. Just a thought...

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2014 : 07:49:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 My option is to carry a few one gallon water bottles behind the head and use that water to flush it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I do the same using leftover antifreeze bottles with a premix of water and head deodorant. Seems easier and no low tide smell.

Edited by - on

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2014 : 08:17:32

So the inlet hose to the pump on the toilet is on the bottom(middle) of the toilet, it pumps up and around to the back of the bowl, then discharges down and to the tank. So technically if the hose were to come off the pump and the seacock open, it would be under the water line and flood. Correct? So technically, the valve on the toilet is the last thing to stop the flooding and why CD sells one with a "safety lock".

Either way, if that drain water from the sink is coming out of the pump no matter if the valve on the pump is closed or open that should mean the seal is bad and needs a rebuild correct?

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2014 : 08:18:50

Diagram will help, Putting a stopper in the sink will help the head draw water because they both use the same thru- hull. Without a stopper in the sink you end up drawing air from the sink.

From the manual
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Immediately before using the head, the inlet valve "A"
must be opened. This provides flushing water to the toilet.
The valve should be kept closed when the head is not in
use. This will prevent water from flooding the boat if
the valve in the toilet pump should fail.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - islander on 04/17/2014 08:38:15

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2014 : 08:23:34

According to that diagram, the holding tank is under the v-berth? Is that where yours is?

Mine is under the port settee and wish it were in the front.

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2014 : 08:41:27

Sounds like you lost prime at toilet pump. Try taking off upper hose of pump on toilet, put your hand or thumb over the opening and pump the toilet until it starts to draw water, then reconnect it.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2014 : 08:44:36

This diagram is for 88 and newer, Earlier boats have the holding tank where yours is but ether way I believe the plumbing is the same. I added to my post above about flooding the boat and keeping the thru hull closed.

Edited by - on

stang9150
Navigator

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USA
138 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2014 : 09:20:48

Like David mentioned my 78 still has the original gate valves,they appear to be newer fittings but I do not want to mess with them.I gathered from this thread that I can use the head with jugs of water instead of opening the valves,is this correct?

Edited by - on

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2014 : 10:02:26

Yes, the jugs will work. I wish I had the time to test all the thru-hull fittings while it was out of water recently. Just way too much to do on the boat. I might give it a shot opening the fitting as long as I am prepared for it to not close again and to be able to stop the water.

Edited by - on

BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2014 : 09:00:57

I'm pretty sure the reason they use seawater is to assure that there is no chance of contaminating the freshwater supply if something was to backfeed accidentally. The stopper in the sink drain or a shutoff in the drain line should help. I haven't tried my head yet but am going to check it out when I launch her next month.

Good luck,

Edited by - on

Kennyge
1st Mate

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USA
76 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2014 : 11:50:15

On my 85, the holding tank is under the starboard settee which feeds the head sink. The drain goes forward to the through hull under the v-berth. There is a T at the valve which lets water flow to the head when the valve is closed. Since I don't like to flush with saltwater, I leave the valve closed and fill the sink with the fresh water from the tank and when I flush, just fresh water enters the head. When I first got her last year, the head only worked for a few flushes and then, like yours, would flush down but not take water in. I took the valve on the right side of the head apart to find the valve was in many pieces. I found a repair kit online and without too much trouble repaired it and it now works great. I continue to only flush with fresh water to protect the head and reduce the odors and rarely open the through hull valve.

Edited by - on

stang9150
Navigator

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USA
138 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2014 : 13:26:09

Since I had the boat I never thought to use an outboard water supply (jugs of water) I have a standard manual Jabsco head.What is the sequence for doing it this way?

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2014 : 13:32:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Kennyge
 On my 85, the holding tank is under the starboard settee which feeds the head sink. The drain goes forward to the through hull under the v-berth. There is a T at the valve which lets water flow to the head when the valve is closed. Since I don't like to flush with saltwater, I leave the valve closed and fill the sink with the fresh water from the tank and when I flush, just fresh water enters the head...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Congratulations--you turned a design flaw into a feature!

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2014 : 13:54:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Since I had the boat I never thought to use an outboard water supply (jugs of water) I have a standard manual Jabsco head.What is the sequence for doing it this way? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Make sure the valve on the marine head is set to flush. Pour the water in, use the handle and flush. Repeat if necessary....

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2014 : 15:56:49

Yea if you want a fresh water flush but don't want to mess with all of the jugs you can close the thru hull, Pump fresh water into the head sink from your flipper faucet and the head will now draw the water from the sink. This should work looking at the plumbing diagram.

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