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Spinnaker handling

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/17/2013 : 10:23:08

So I am compiling a hardware list for our recently acquired symmetrical spinnaker

I thought there was a recent thread where some people were poo-pooing a downhaul for the pole.

Anyone remember that?

1989 C25 TR/WK, #5822
1973 McVay Minuet 19
1975 Jester 12
1981 C25 SR/SK, #2428
1981 C22 SR/SK,
Tanzer 16
Sunfish

"There is nothing, absolutely nothing half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats." Kenneth Grahame

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 13:40:43

They were saying the downhaul is unnecessary for a whisker pole.

I think it is completely necessary for a spinnaker pole, unless you have a very small spinnaker with a heavy pole. Genoas are a lot heavier and smaller than spinnakers, so a downhaul can be less necessary with them.

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 14:13:30

Ah yes, makes perfect sense . . . thanks

Edited by - on

windseaker
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 15:34:17

with a symmetrical spinnaker a downhaul for the pole is a very good idea because of the different angles you have the pole at (dead down the pole is all the way back to the shrouds, reaching the pole is forward to the forestay and every where inbetween). With out a downhaul the pole will have a tendency to sky in a breeze. A topping lift is also a good Idea for the pole. Asymmetrical spinnakers not so much because the chute is attached at the bottom of the forestay and a whisker pole works just fine.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2013 : 04:49:53

Flying a spinnaker, whether symmetrical or asymettrical, is a grand experience and I'm sure you'll be absolutely giddy every time you deploy it. Although I have both types of spinnakers, I've never deployed the symmetrical chute, but your recent topics have given me the inspiration to make it a priority going into next season. Being a singlehanded sailor, overcoming obstacles is somewhat a way of life and flying a regular spin is one of those challenges I've yet to meet, but hopefully I will remedy that next season...Thanks!

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2013 : 06:05:32

I've deployed and retrieved my Symmetrical spinnaker myself in up to 10knots. We've also sailed as crew with it in several of our races this season (when the course was set right).

Some observations for our 25 footer sized symmetrical spinnaker launches of needs.. then I'll go over wants...

Visuals help... I'll presume you are setting up for a symmetrical rig.

*Spin guys like to delineate between sheets and guys... whatever you call them, you really only need a sheet/guy to each clew, there is a lazy sheet, and a guy in this picture, nope, just use one line to each clue (you'll see why in a minute)
* You'll want turning blocks well aft, preferably nearly full astern
* You'll want a foreguy (which is just a line pulling down on the pole's center)... the traditional Catalina spot for it, is middle of the foredeck, that's a PITA to use... move the block to the bottom of the mast, and then clasp to the bottom of the pole, it'll pull the pole down, and everytime you "trim" the spin, you won't have to adjust the darned foreguy then.
* You'll need a spinnaker halyard
* You'll also want a spinnaker pole topping lift
* Of course you'll need a spinnaker pole with bridle
* You'll need a spinnaker pole ring (prefer adjustable) on the mast.
* Finally you'll want a topping lift.
* Optional on our boats are "twings" or "tweakers" which are basically barber-haulers for the guy (pole side sheet/line)... THIS IS WHERE THEY WERE ARGUING THAT a FOREGUY was UNNECESSARY... on the Catalina 25 it might not be (spin might be smaller than on the Capri 25 I dunno)... but I'd argue that as the winds pipe up, you may still want the foreguy. The Tweakers, pull the pole down (which is what the foreguy does)... but they do so at an angle... where the foreguy is more direct downward force. I've found that the spinnaker puts a HUGE load on the foreguy when you get above say 10mph winds, I'd hate to trust that to tweakers alone.

This is the layout I prefer and have described...

Some things nobody ever tells you?

Solo, launching the kite from a pulpit bag is easiest.. Retrieval is easiest to the companionway hatch bag... See my picture below (they sell them for the J/24)...

When you route your sheets/guys, route them OUTSIDE of everything, outside of lifelines, stays, everything! Here's the one that messes me up EVERY time... the jib-sheets, should lay ON TOP of the spinnaker pole... when you are dropping the spinnaker and putting up the jib, the jib goes up FIRST, and you'll need to trim it, if its under the pole it'll get caught when you drop the pole... if its on top, you don't have that problem!

Also if you DEPLOY from the companionway, you want your sheets/guys to run OVER TOP of the sheets, and OVER the lifeline! then outside everywhere. YOu'll also want your halyard to be pulled back BEHIND the genoa, and to the companionway... hooked to the head of the spinnaker.

When you deploy (from whereever), pre-feed the spinnaker to the pole and also pre-feed to the turning blocks as much as you can (watch for lines falling in the water they are slow!).. NOW haul on the halyard... (if from the companionway, make sure to throw the head out clear and forward of the genoa), if from the bow, haul quickly as water in a spinnaker is like a brake!

OK... so the spinnaker is up you have to experiment on pole trim (guy) and sheet... If the edge of the spinnaker breaks every once in a while, that is OK... you want to let the pole rise as you get closer to DDW, and drop the pole (especially the tip as you come closer to a reach)...

Retrieve? Easy PEASY... to the companionway... With the jib up and while sheeting the spinnaker, release the halyard and pull (with your hand) the clew towards you and stuff into the companionway bag... ease the guy, release more halyard and pull some more in... if you use a tiller-pilot (doing this solo), you can coordinate your moves and have the spin down in seconds! Come off a bit from DDW to do this, and blanket the spinnaker some with the genoa...

I've seen speeds double using the spinnaker from wing and wing, or even cracked off from broad reach... the Spinnaker is the trickiest sail in our arsenal, but it's also the most powerful to get up and surfing downwind... HAVE FUN! be safe!

OH one last thing! If you get into a tight spot, WHATEVER YOU DO, don't release the sheet to depower! it quickly becomes a spinnaker flapping forward on you with your sheets dangling dangerously below it! DON'T ASK HOW I KNOW! INSTEAD blow the halyard! It's crazy to do this on any other sail, but on the spinnaker it's the right way! Also this also sounds dumb, but come off of DDW, and blanket it with the main some... if you can (and have time) raise the genoa to blanket it!

Oh and its sounds counter intuitive, but try to sail the boat UNDER the the sail, not trim under the boat direction... this will prevent pitch and roll... if it gets wild and you start to fish tail and roll, steer under the spin, don't try to trim it out (it'll make it worse).

You are gonna have SO MUCH FUN!

Edited by - shnool on 10/18/2013 06:33:37

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2013 : 06:26:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 Flying a spinnaker, whether symmetrical or asymettrical, is a grand experience and I'm sure you'll be absolutely giddy every time you deploy it. Although I have both types of spinnakers, I've never deployed the symmetrical chute, but your recent topics have given me the inspiration to make it a priority going into next season. Being a singlehanded sailor, overcoming obstacles is somewhat a way of life and flying a regular spin is one of those challenges I've yet to meet, but hopefully I will remedy that next season...Thanks!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Don, do give it a try! I really regret waiting so long to learn how to fly a symmetrical spinn. It offers a whole new set of sailing mysteries to try to understand!

Edited by - on

windseaker
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2013 : 08:07:38

Just a thought single handling a chute you can use a sock to set and douse the chute it makes so easy. We don't use it when were racing.

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2013 : 08:55:33

Chutes are even more fun with a boat that planes! This is my old Merit 25. I started out learning with a small chute from my old Spirit 23 then moved on to a full size chute.

chute size

Retrieving in the Lee of the main

setting the pole for launch after rounding, how many boats am I rounding with?

BTW I sucked at racing, that is me way back

But God we looked great doing it... reaching... I forgot to release my backstay!

Edited by - pastmember on 10/18/2013 09:00:38

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2013 : 10:36:40

Frank, you're a riot... YEP, I criticize myself from pictures... someone is like "ooh what a great picture..."
No I left the genoa snagged on the lifeline, backstay is on hard, vang on too much... traveler is in a weird position... blah blah blah... VERY funny!

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2013 : 16:14:43

I used to crew on a C&C 38 out of Cleveland. The first time we flew the spinnaker - it ended up under the boat and we pulled it back into the cockpit - aft of the boat . . . with a smathering of bottom paint on it.

Edited by - OJ on 10/25/2013 16:15:15

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