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Relocating Traveler

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djdurrett
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124 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/10/2010 : 15:34:01

Does anyone have any pictures of a relocated traveler? I am new to the forum and a new C25 owner (1979 Tall Rig Fixed Keel). Seems like one of the first things to do would be to add a back stay tang for an adjustable Back stay and relocate the traveler. Any suggestions would be great! Pictures would be even better! Thanks!

"Belafonte"
79 C25 TR/FK #1130
Bay View Marina
Lake Ray Hubbard
Dallas, TX

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/10/2010 : 15:47:30

Andy, (an author on this topic) will probably chime in here.

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Ed Cassidy
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Response Posted - 05/10/2010 : 17:59:54

Mine is on the arch over the companionway. PO did a fantastic job, it gets everything but the backstay out of the cockpit and provides a nice handhold going down stairs.

Edited by - Ed Cassidy on 05/10/2010 18:11:16

Even Chance
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Response Posted - 05/10/2010 : 19:57:40

Look at the C25 Tech Tips, and click on the bimini.

Edited by - on

TCurran
Admiral

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Response Posted - 05/11/2010 : 13:13:49

Ed,

Do you have a pop-top?

Thanks
tom

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skrenz
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Response Posted - 05/11/2010 : 15:35:18

I took an entirely different approach from what I have read in the forum. When I got my boat, the PO had moved the traveler from the stock position in the pushpit to across the seats in front of the companionway. I personally can not abide this set up nor do I believe that the boom was designed for this load to be moved from the end to the middle of the boom.
But to each their own.
Without a doubt, the stock traveler is pretty dumb. Essentially, it just not long enough to be effective. So what I did was move the harken traveler that the PO had installed by the companionway to the top of the transom just inside of the pushpit stanchions. This now gives me a traveler of a reasonable and effective length, keeps the sheet attachment at the end of the boom where it was designed to be and moves the traveler out of the traffic lane by the companionway. It took a bit of doing because I had to arch the traveler track to conform to the curve of the transom and there is precious little room to get your fingers onto the bolts attaching the traveler to the boat, but it is doable.

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Ed Cassidy
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Response Posted - 05/11/2010 : 16:59:38

Tom,
No, it's not a pop-top.
Ed

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TCurran
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Response Posted - 05/11/2010 : 18:36:12

Ed,
thanks.
tom

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bigelowp
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Response Posted - 05/11/2010 : 19:54:35

Being either very ignorant or a true purist, my view is that the designers know more than me and the original set up -- as marginal as it may appear, is how the boat was designed to be sailed and, therefore, the best way to keep it. Newer boats have travellers closer to the mast, but our boats seem to sail pretty well as designed.

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JohnP
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Response Posted - 05/12/2010 : 05:59:02

Ergonomically speaking, I hate the primitive design of the original traveler cam cleats, and I dislike the fact that I need to pull the mainsheet down onto the top of my fuel tank to release it.

I will leave the traveler on the transom, but I still plan to replace the traveler cams with new swivel fairlead-cam cleats that I picked up at Minney's last fall. I just got a set of socket wrenches and an extenion handle, and I'm hoping that I can reach the nuts from the dumster to port, from the Q-berth to starboard, or alternatively from my new elegant transom access panel amidships.

All I need is the motivation to spend a good sailing day sitting at the dock with bolts and nuts and 3M 4200. Whenever I get to the boat, the water seems to beckon and tell me "Those modifications don't need to be done today."

"Do it next time," the wind and the waves sing out!

Edited by - on

djdurrett
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124 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2010 : 07:37:36

Great points. That reminds me of boats that I have raced with travelers in front of the companionway. They tend to eat shinns. OUCH. I would love to see a picture of your setup skrenz. That seems like a great alternative. All the blocks are gone in my car so it is metal on metal... it is more of a hermit than a traveler at the moment.

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JimB517
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Response Posted - 05/12/2010 : 08:56:29

Steve - please post photos. I'd love to do that project on Indiscipline, while keeping the old.

Keep this in mind:

Only stock travellers are class legal for the Nationals.

Steve if you come we'll work something out.

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PCP777
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Response Posted - 05/12/2010 : 09:31:29

My traveler. It is much like the standard traveler on a C-27. Only draw back? Head bumps. Performs very well.

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skrenz
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Response Posted - 05/12/2010 : 17:01:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 Steve - please post photos. I'd love to do that project on Indiscipline, while keeping the old.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Here is a view of the traveler while I was on hard this winter.

Note a couple of things. The traveler originally had the cam cleats on the traveler itself. I found this to be a pain because they were always getting in the way of the tiller. So I moved them out to the stanchions. To install this, you needed to get at the space between the transom and the cockpit liner. I cut holes, so I could also get at the stanchion base nuts, and then covered the holes with the teak pieces you see here.
The traveler is actually a compound curve. Not only is the transom curved in the horizontal plane but also slightly in the vertical plane. To produce the horizontal curve, I built a wooden jig with a radius of 66". Then bent the straight track around the form using pipe clamps. The vertical curve I was able to introduce into the track during the process of bolting it down without much difficulty.
As you can see from the photo, the clearances around the stanchions are all pretty tight. And the space to get your fingers in to hold the nuts for the attachment bolts is a challenge. But it does work. One drawback is that you cannot raise the tiller as high as before, but that does not seem to be too much of a problem. The track is not curved so much as to require a special Harken car. The stock car works just fine.
All in all I like this setup much better than either having it in the companionway - great trip hazard - or on the cabin top - pretty much excludes using the pop top. And it keeps the main sheet attachment point at the end of the mast where it was designed to be.

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skrenz
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Response Posted - 05/12/2010 : 17:07:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by skrenz
...And it keeps the main sheet attachment point at the end of the mast where it was designed to be.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Make that: And it keeps the sheet attachment point at the end of the BOOM where it was designed to be.

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Patrice C25
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 05/13/2010 : 06:40:11

Hi Peter,

I see on your pictures that you have cam cleats after your genoa winch.
I was planning to make this addition, instead of the standard cleat. Do you like it ? And what size, model do you have ?

Thanks

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 05/13/2010 : 07:21:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bigelowp
 Being either very ignorant or a true purist, my view is that the designers know more than me and the original set up -- as marginal as it may appear, is how the boat was designed to be sailed and, therefore, the best way to keep it. Newer boats have travellers closer to the mast, but our boats seem to sail pretty well as designed.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I tend to agree with Peter B. At first, I didn't like the traveler arrangement, but that was mostly because it seemed awkward to use, especially because there wasn't enough space in the cockpit for a crewman to get back to the transom to make adjustments to it without interfering with the swinging of the tiller, so the helmsman had to adjust the traveler himself. After awhile, I learned to adjust the traveler before I began the tack, instead of trying to adjust it after steering the boat onto the new course. (If you adjust it before starting the tack, you will be adjusting it when it isn't under load. If you wait until after the tack is completed, the traveler will be under a very heavy load in strong winds, and you might need both hands to make the adjustment.) After I began to do it that way, the awkwardness was eliminated.

If I can make a piece of hardware more functional simply by changing my procedures for using it, I'd much rather do that than to replace or relocate the piece of hardware.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 05/13/2010 08:12:44

panhead1948
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Response Posted - 05/13/2010 : 08:39:28

Skrenz I like your set up. I had thought of doing the same thing,but when I crawled back into the space and looked at the area I thought no way. How did you make the openings to get in the transom? KJ

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Derek Crawford
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Response Posted - 05/13/2010 : 09:05:02

Here's my set-up. No Need to drill large holes in transom. Allows the crew to move it and it becomes a useful sail control.

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skrenz
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Response Posted - 05/13/2010 : 09:27:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by panhead1948
 Skrenz I like your set up. I had thought of doing the same thing,but when I crawled back into the space and looked at the area I thought no way. How did you make the openings to get in the transom? KJ
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That's pretty straight forward. I just laid out the hole I wanted to cut and then drilled a 1/4" hole to get the jig saw blade in and cut the outline of the opening with the jigsaw. Make sure you round the corners to relieve stress at these points. Obviously you want to make these openings as small as necessary. I think mine are about 1 1/2" high and maybe 7" long. As I said, these holes allow access to other connections too like the bolts that attach the aft chainplate, stanchion bases, wiring to the stern light, etc. You may have noticed in the picture the third opening cover in the middle of the boat down lower. That's the access to the upper rudder gudgeon nuts.

The way these boats are put together is there is the outer hull and a casting for the cockpit, deck, side rails, etc. This deck casting is bonded to the hull around the edge and screwed down in places. What this results in is a space between the inside of the hull and the outside of the deck casting. Things bolted to the deck around the perimeter end up with their attachments between the hull and the deck casting. That's what you saw when you looked up from underneath. There is not much space between the hull and deck castings and some are impossible to get at.

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aeckhart
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Response Posted - 05/14/2010 : 11:05:23

After dodging the main sheet tackle for 22 years I am finally moving it to mid-boom, or close to it, this year. Since I single hand almost exclusively, mountiing the traveler in front of the companionway is too far forward. I'm planning on putting it next to the forward edge of the "dumpster" hatch. That way, if my wife takes a lazy evening sail with me she can still lounge in her favorite spot next to the companionway and read, and there's still some room to step over the traveler, then into the companionway.

My only reservation is the type of boom bail to use. I'm hesitant to use a single through-bolt application for fear of elongating the holes over time. I already have the single-bolt bail but I'm now considering the strap-type bail used for the stock boom vang - multiple machine screws.

Anyway, that's my plan, and probably my last boat mod. At last count I spnet $26,000 for the boat, motor, and trailor new and put almost $8000 into it. I think I've enjoyed modifing it as much as sailing.

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Even Chance
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Response Posted - 05/14/2010 : 12:49:55

Al, my single bolt bail is five years old now, and there's been no enlongation of the holes.

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OJ
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Response Posted - 05/14/2010 : 12:53:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aeckhart
 . . . My only reservation is the type of boom bail to use . . . I'm now considering the strap-type bail used for the stock boom vang - multiple machine screws . . . <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Al, I'm looking to do this modification in the next 12 months or so.

How many bails?? 1? 2? 3?

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aeckhart
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Response Posted - 05/17/2010 : 09:12:53

Thanks Brooke, that's encouraging.

OJ, one bail (bale?)several types. I purchased the through-bolt type from Defender. It's around $40 - I guess because the block attachment is on a roller which travels inside the bale. This arrangment would seem to lesson the shock on a tack or jibe. Again, concern for the hole elongating. Brooke's experience reassures me that I didn't waste $40.

APSY (.com) has a selection of strap-type bales in several sizes also. CD's is designed for the boom vang - on an angle relative to the boom and probably not suitable for this application. West Marine has practically no selection at all.

Edited by - aeckhart on 05/17/2010 09:28:33

OJ
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Response Posted - 05/17/2010 : 10:04:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aeckhart
 . . . one bail (bale?)several types . . . <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I only ask because I've seen other boats with two or three <s>bales</s> - bails perhaps to spread the tension on the boom - but maybe overkill on the shorter boom like ours.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> . . . West Marine has practically no selection at all. . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Yep, went there over the weekend for 3 pretty basic things and walked out empty-handed. Lot's of silly (to me) stuff for powerboats though!

Edited by - OJ on 05/17/2010 18:35:23

Even Chance
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Response Posted - 05/17/2010 : 15:52:35

OJ, the boats I've seen with multiple bails (it is bail, not hay bale) are usually bigger boats with travelers forward of the companionway. Those require lots of leverage, and one way to rig a 6 or more to 1 main sheet is with single blocks on multiple bails.

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