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Applying VC-17

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Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/09/2008 : 11:08:34

Well I'm all done sanding my bottom and ordered 5 quarts of VC-17. Got this article about applying it and thought you might all be interested.

APPLYING VC-17
Submitted by Pete Matthews - Great Lakes Interlux Representative

VC-17 is one of the easiest antifouling paints to apply, and
to maintain. But like any other antifouling system, there
are some things that have to be done both at the initial
application and as part of an annual maintenance program.

The new application.

This means applying VC-17 to
a new boat or a boat that has recently had a different
antifouling system on it that has been removed. Essentially
a clean fiberglass hull. If it's a new hull, it must be
dewaxed completely to remove any residual mold release wax.
This should be done with the Interlux 202 Solvent Wash. We
recommend using a two-rag system. One to put the solvent on
the hull, another to wipe it clean. Change both rags
frequently and remember not to dip the application rag back
into the solvent container, thereby contaminating it. When
you're done with the entire hull, take a hose or container
of water and wet down portions of the hull. If the water
beads up, there's still wax on the hull and the process
must be repeated. Failure to remove the wax can prevent the
paint adhering to the hull. Also please note, this must be
done before sanding the hull so as not to imbed the wax in
the gelcoat during the sanding process. When you are sure
you've removed all the wax from the hull, the next step is
to sand the entire surface to be painted with VC-17. This is
a must. You must abrade the hull to provide a profile for
the paint to stick to. Failure to do so can result in the
paint detaching from the hull. The hull should be sanded
with 180 grit sandpaper, 220 at the finest. After sanding
wipe the hull down with 202 Solvent Wash again to remove
sanding residue. Some boat manufacturers aren't in favor of
sanding hulls because they feel this may increase the
likelihood of osmotic blistering. I know of no evidence to
support this, but it is the manufacturers warranty. In this
case there has been some success reported using a coarse
Scotch Brite Pad to scrub the hull. This can be done with
the 202 Solvent wash. You must be sure to leave a visible
scratch in the gelcoat. I'd have to say that I feel this
would provide minimal adhesion at best and I can't recommend
the system even though I know it's done. After cleaning and
abrading the surface, you're ready to apply the paint. Pick
a day that isn't raining, and is above 50 degrees F. You'll
notice that under the hat on the VC-17 can there is a bag
of copper. This must be mixed into the paint. Please be
careful doing this as the copper is very fine and will fly
around. (Perhaps a good time for a paper sanding mask) This
is what provides the antifouling. You'll notice the can is
short filled to allow you to add the copper and stir it in
without spilling. This does NOT mean that the can should be
filled with a solvent. This is not the case. Only in rare
cases should any antifouling paint be thinned and in the
case of VC-17, almost never. The paint is best applied with
a roller or by spray, IF the yard you're in allows
spraying. Please check with the yard manager about this. If
you can and do choose to spray, contact your Interlux
representative for details. If you're going to roll, any
solvent resistant foam or short nap roller cover will work.
The recommended system is to start from the bottom of the
hull or keel, and roll upwards. Do not over roll or attempt
to "smooth" the paint out. It's self-leveling and will do
that itself. Just make one pass up to the waterline tape
then start over at the bottom. Keep the roller well filled
with paint, but not to the point that it runs off onto the
ground, or your arm. A word of caution, This paint dries
very quickly. Do not pour the entire can into the tray. It
will evaporate. Poor in just enough to fill the roller, then
add more to the tray when you need to refill the roller.
Work your way around the boat working back to the place you
started. During an initial application, ALWAYS apply two
coats. The second coat can be applied after the first coat
has dried, about a half an hour under most conditions.
Remove the tape and the boat can be launched about a
half-hour after painting.

Steve Blackburn, Calgary, AB
C250WB - 1999 - Hull 396

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2008 : 11:17:51

After putting the copper powder in the VC17 and mixing, I put the lid back on, then poke two screwdriver holes in it, one on each side, to facillitate pouring. Having only those to small holes instead of a wide open can minimizes evaporation and sometimes more importantly, in the event you knock your can over, you'll only lose a teaspoon or two instead of the whole thing. With the price of VC17, you don't want to waste a drop.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2008 : 11:21:01

FIVE quarts!?!?

Even if you are doing a double coat, that seems like a lot to me. I did mine for the first time this spring, and it took a can plus a splotch.

The technique shown to me by another member of our club really saved on the paint.

Use the hard foam roller, and metal tray, get everything laid out.

Get an empty dish soap detergent bottle. The plast ic they are made of doesn't react to VC-17m. Put the copper stuff in the bottle (use a funnel).

Dump the VC-17 into the bottle as well (same funnel). Put the cap on and shake well to mix.

When you are painting, squirt just enough VC into the tray to cover the roller. It becomes a rhythm - squirt, cap, roll, squirt, repeat. Very little evaporation this way, no waste and you can stop to take a break.

As I said, It took one can and a squirt to do my boat - the guy who showed me this did a 30 ft C&C in one can using the same method, with enough left over to be my extra squirt, but he has more experience than I do.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2008 : 13:23:56

Local environmentalists are pushing for a ban of copper in bottom paint. They are saying it could be deadly to some of the fragile organisms that live in our bay (Newport Beach, CA.)
Not sure whats gonna happen and I have mixed emotions. The experts say it will cost more to do bottom painting and it will need to be done more often.
Anyone else heard about this in your area?
Steve A

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2008 : 14:59:43

Heard about this bottle trick but using a Ketchup bottle. This is what I'm going to do.

I guess I'll some leftover for the next years.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2008 : 15:19:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Blackburn
 
I guess I'll some leftover for the next years.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Good - then I can hit you up for the splotch of I'm short next year...

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2008 : 15:27:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 Local environmentalists are pushing for a ban of copper in bottom paint...The experts say it will cost more to do bottom painting and it will need to be done more often.
Anyone else heard about this in your area?
Steve A

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Its got enough momentum to have created at least one company...

[url="http://www.greenboatstuff.com/epaep10ecanb.html"]Eco-friendly bottom paint[/url]

and in the UK there is also a movement...
[url="http://www.rya.org.uk/KnowledgeBase/environment/green+solutions+to+the+antifoul+blues.htm"]RYA article[/url]

I know the greenies at my office had a heart attack when I told them why I had to repaint my boat. In my eyes it still beats burning gas to get a stinkpot around, but then thats just me.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2008 : 16:29:49

Chris, kinda burns me too being a sailboat owner. And I am gonna a new bottom with in the year or so.
Steve A

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2008 : 00:57:39

I just finished my first try at applying VC-17 (my keel is in my basement). I'm using a 4" white foam roller from home depot. I mixed a can of VC-17 and copper in a rubbermaid plastic bottle with a lid (like a big ketchup bottle) and shake often. I poured about 1-2 oz in the pan and rolled the roller where it immediatly sucked the paint in. Tried to roll a bit and found that I did not have enough paint. Put another 1-2 oz in the pan and the roller seems to suck it all in again. Between coats I stored the roller in a plastic bag where it seems to keep it real fresh.

Is it your experience that the roller sucks in so much paint? It's almost like the roller sucked in more paint than I used on the keel itself! I'm guessing that once the roller is full of paint that it should get easier and that I shouldn't try to "stretch" the paint too much keeping the roller with plenty of paint at all times. I almost wonder if it would be a good idea to dip a new roller right into the paint container to let it suck in as much as it can initialy.

Another question I have is about rolling technique. I have lots of experience rolling house latex paint but I think this experience is counter productive with VC-17. What I mean is that I think I overlap too much (roll too often). Do you guys try to pass (overlap) as little as possible? Even after half an hour I still see small roller marks.

3 coats shown here. Waited 30 minutes in between coats. Sometimes if my roller is getting a little dry I can see small white speckles indicating I'm lifting the other coats a bit. Everyting seems to indicate that I don't have enough paint in my roller but believe me I'm putting lots. I think I used about 1/3 of a can already and that's only on one side of the keel! (3 coats though)

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 05/14/2008 01:11:17

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2008 : 06:03:37

I think you have the wrong type of roller.

Looking at your pic I see a soft and mushy foam roller, is that right? The one I used was a hard cardboard tube with about 1 mm of yellow foam over it. It was a west-system epoxy roller (bought at West Marine for about $2.00.

Since my boat was previously painted with VC-17m, I just did a single coat. Do you have a barrier coat on beneath it? I'm not sure whether that makes a difference.

Edit to add:

You appear to be applying the VC over your entire rudder - is there a reason for that? On mine just the tip that goes in the water has anti-fouling.

Edited by - Prospector on 05/14/2008 08:13:59

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2008 : 08:10:03

The instructions say to avoid over-rolling because of lift. I use the very small solid foam rollers. I am not all that concerned with waste, at $45/can and my usual annual 3 cans I see it as one of the most cost effective things I do in sailing. I had half a can left this year and painted my rusty trailer fenders with it.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2008 : 08:54:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">[i]

Edit to add:

You appear to be applying the VC over your entire rudder - is there a reason for that? On mine just the tip that goes in the water has anti-fouling.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It is not a rudder, it is his centerboard; he has a 250.

Edited by - on

DanM
Captain

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USA
256 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2008 : 11:27:12

Great idea on the squirt bottle.
The foam roller cover should be as thin foam as possible. I had a hard time finding one in several stores this year, and settled on one at Sherwin-Williams that was thicker than I wanted, but it worked OK. I was going with the suggestion from someone on this forum last year who advised using a 6" roller, which made it harder to find.
My marina offers (free)to paint the keel bottom and patches left by the cradle pads when they hoist the boat. "Just leave a bit in the can on the cradle shelf."

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2008 : 11:34:19

Minimize the rolling and only roll in one direction. Don't obsess about the roller marks, it is going to be under water!

I recoat after about 5 minutes. Takes me less than one hour to paint the entire bottom, keel, and rudder.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2008 : 13:02:43

Yes my roller is the mushy 4" white foam roller (feels a little rubbery). Also saw small bristle roller (multi-colored stripes like a rainbow) same outter diameter as my current foam roller but with the cardboard middle. I do agree that a cardboard center with only a 1-2 mm foam thickness should do the trick. I'll go back to HomeDepot tonight and check it out, thanks.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2008 : 13:41:16

Steve - instead of HD try a powerboat store or a canoe shop - they should both have some fibreglass repair type stuff, and would be more likely to have the type of roller you need. Our HD, home Hardware, and Lowes all struck out for me when I was looking.

These are the ones I got:
[url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/28482/377%20710/0/west%20system%20roller/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710&Ne=0&Ntt=west%20system%20roller&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=west%20system%20roller&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=5000&subdeptNum=4&classNum=117"]West System Rollers[/url]

Edited by - Prospector on 05/14/2008 13:43:50

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2008 : 00:38:24

Well I'm all done and Vida Nova is now at her dock being pretty and all:

I followed Randy's advice and didn't worry about roller markings and such since it's below the water (even though my perfectionist tendencies made this difficult). I used a short nap (1/4" thick nap) 7" wide roller bought at my local sailboat shop that sold me the VC-17. I certainly did not have the smooth result Randy posted a while back. I got uneven colored patches here and there as this picture shows:

I don't see what I'm doing wrong, and quite honestly this isn't rocket science so what the heck? I used 5 quarts for only 2 coats (I think I should've gotten 3 coats out of this). Maybe I am applying it too thick? I think spraying it is quite possibly the best and only way to have a smooth even finish and use less paint in the process. I had my VC-17 mixed up in a large rubbermaid bottle and mixed every time before pouring in my pan. I'm considering buying a Wagner airless next year.

Note that I have been using the Dark Blue VC-17 not the regular. Maybe that makes a difference?

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 05/20/2008 00:46:23

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3441 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2008 : 05:29:18

Steve,

Be happy - Looks great ! Have a good time sailing !

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2008 : 06:03:20

Before spraying, read the instructiuons on th ecan - I think it says something about not using conventional equipment, and that the spray will dry before setting up onthe boat resulting in poor performance etc. (not entirely sure... just read the can)

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2008 : 07:30:02

Looks great, Steve.

Next time, try using a smaller foam roller.

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2008 : 07:48:40

Steve, Vida Nova's bottom is fine. I used to spray VC-17 with a standard Wagner sprayer for many years with no problems but it is easier and more economical to roll it on. But if you are looking for a mirror finish to attract OOOH's and AAAH's on the hard in the marina you have to start with a very smooth, hard finish on the surface below the VC-17. It's like any other painting -surface preperation is the most important part. Also after you apply the VC-17 you can burnish it with a piece of wadded up newspaper but it does nothing for performance, it just looks pretty. So, the smoother you get the bottom before you paint the less paint it will take to cover it and the faster you will go.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2008 : 10:57:54

Thanks for the compliments guys! Man I worked my pants off on this boat, but she's all done now ready to enjoy!

Renzo brings up a good point about the bottom smoothness. I sanded the bottom with 150 grit while Intelux suggests 320 and the article above 180. With the 150 you don't see any noticable scratches but maybe with the paint being so thin it needs more just to fill in those micro scratches thus extending the surface area. Maybe that's why I needed so much paint.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2008 : 11:58:15

Looks great! My guess is the difference in color is that yours is the blue and mine was just the pure copper. Underwater who cares??

I would not spray this stuff. Use the roller and brush. This year I used 3 quarts to do the bottom, one coat over most and 2 at the waterline and leading edges. Five quarts for your first time (2 coats) is not bad at all.

It is hard not to obsess. I used to build model trains and I would wear a 5X magnifier when detailing them. A detail unseeable to the human eye would drive me crazy. A friend advised me to start looking at my models from 3 feet. They looked great. My wife is a perfectionist when painting the house. I have to remind her - it is a house not a Picasso.

You boat looks beautiful in the water. Now go sailing!!

Edited by - on

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