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OPD Propane Tank

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dorfman
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/25/2002 : 17:11:15

The law is now requiring that propane tanks to be refilled have an "Overflow Protection Device" valve. My 1998 C250 came without that feature. Seaward Products, who makes the containment boxes, sells the new tank (part #93270, list $72) but they tell me that I need a different lid to hold the new tank because (at least) the valve is taller. They tell me that the lid (part #80233, list: $30) is 1 inch taller than the old one. Trouble is, there isn't an inch clearance above my current lid!

Has anyone else been thru this and solved this problem? What's being done on the new C250s? Thanks.
Barry Dorfman
Ten Forward C250 #368
Austin, Tx

Edited by - on

River Harley
Navigator

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132 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2002 : 18:26:12

I recently experienced the same problem with my newly purchased 2002 C250. My solution involved modifying the lid to the propane containment box. I found that when I closed the cockpit storage lid completely, the protruding propane box lid was putting pressure on the hinges of the storage compartment lid. It was ever so slight, but still enough that it was cracking the area around the hinge. Basically, I sawed off approximately 1/4" or so of the top of the plastic lid/cover to the propane box. The center square portion of the box cover is raised internally, so one needs to go a little at a time so as not to cut through the lid entirely. I found this to solve the problem. One has to get used to the difference in appearance of the box cover. It is out of sight when the storage compartment is closed anyway. Additionally, due to the configuration of the inside of the propane box lid, the space around the raised center portion allows for some small additional storage space - such as loose tools and such. If you decide to try this, let me know if it works for you. The only other solution I can envision would be a custom made lid for the propane box.

River Harley

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2002 : 07:03:15

Ben;

I noticed not long after I bought my new 250 that the lid was interfering with proper closing of the locker. However, after looking at the lid and experimenting with placing the lid back on the box I noticed that on my 250 the lid fits only one way and the warning label text on the lid is upside down. When placed on the box this way the locker closes properly. The whole system tank, box and lid seem to fit quite tight together with very close tolerances. My gas tank came with the newer type valve you are speaking about. I would encourage a closer look at the new valve and how it is seated in the tank prior to any box/lid modification. The lid has to be seated tightly on the box for the system to opperate safetly. My system is also a seward so they must have figured it out. Why not call Catalina and see what they have to say. Keep us posted as others will most likely be faced with a similar problem when they try and fill their older tanks. Sorry I couldn,t offer more. If you think it would help I can get the model# off my Seward system.

Ray Seitz C 250WB #628

Edited by - Ray Seitz on 08/27/2002 07:05:46

Edited by - on

MarkTM
Navigator

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USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2002 : 13:27:28

My tank has the larger threads . . . you can barely see them in the shadow area of this photo. Does it mean my value includes the OPD? I haven't filled the tank in years. I'd hate to have them tell me then cannot fill it. The value looks just like the new valves on the tanks for my gas grill at home. If my valve does contain the OPD, the change must have been made between hulls 368 and 384.

<img src="http://www.texassailor.com/Dcp00093.jpg" border=0>

Mark Melchior
C250wb "Lorelei" #384
[url="http://www.texassailor.com/"]<img src="http://www.texassailor.com/texas.gif " border=0>[/url]
(click flag to visit Central Texas Sailor)

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dorfman
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2002 : 15:41:21

Thanks to all for the feedback. (I sent Catalina a web-mail several days before my original post here and haven't received a reply yet.)

Mark,
no, your tank is not OPD. But I'm going to order the parts and will let you know how it goes.
Barry

Edited by - on

dorfman
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2002 : 16:10:22

Let me see now. Seaward boasts that their tanks are made by Mansfield Tank Company. My local propane dealer sells the 5# Mansfield tank (with the OPD valve) for $49. I talked to Mansfield Tank and they tell me that they only have one version of the 5# tank (and no smaller tank). $72 or $49? Hmmmm.
Barry

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2002 : 09:59:06

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> My tank has the larger threads . . . you can barely see them in the shadow area of this photo. Does it mean my value includes the OPD? I haven't filled the tank in years. I'd hate to have them tell me then cannot fill it. The value looks just like the new valves on the tanks for my gas grill at home. If my valve does contain the OPD, the change must have been made between hulls 368 and 384.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Mark: I have been told that the way to tell if the tank has the new valve is by looking at the valve handle. The newer handles in our area are triangular shapped. The older handles (sorry Mark) look like yours. I am hopefully wrong because it seemes as though Barry's problem will also be the problem of many others.<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>

BTW I think the underside of the lid on your box does look different.
Ray Seitz C 250WB #628

Edited by - Ray Seitz on 08/29/2002 12:24:32

Edited by - on

MarkTM
Navigator

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USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2002 : 13:55:49

What's to prevent me from filling up my OPD-equiped home gas grill tank and then gravity filling my non-OPD tank? Is it inherently dangerous? And, if so, how dangerous?

Mark Melchior
C250wb "Lorelei" #384
[url="http://www.texassailor.com/"]<img src="http://www.texassailor.com/texas.gif " border=0>[/url]
(click flag to visit Central Texas Sailor)

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2002 : 20:32:56

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>What's to prevent me from filling up my OPD-equiped home gas grill tank and then gravity filling my non-OPD tank? Is it inherently dangerous? And, if so, how dangerous? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Mark: I have thought of that solution for my old grill tanks, but I will have to defer to other members for answers to your questions. I did however, manage to exchange my old Grill tanks, a solution not possible for the small tanks on our boats.

Ray Seitz C 250WB #628

Edited by - on

dorfman
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2002 : 12:46:40

Here's an interim update on my progress.

First, the Seaward specs for the containment boxes indicate that the current boxes are 12" tall, which is exactly how tall mine is (with the old lid). So I'm olding off on buying the new lid till I get the new tank to determine just what doesn't fit.

The Mansfield tank that my local dealer has is taller and not the short squatty tank that is in our boats, so I must assume that Mansfield is custom-making these tanks for Seaward. Mine is on order from Seaward (via West Marine).

I should also add that the local propane supplier said that they could just replace the valve in my old tank with an OPD valve. I asked if it would be the same height and was told "I think so". (Don't know why Seaward isn't taking that route if that's the case.) In my case, I (slightly) damaged the old tank so need a new one anyway. (That's another story.)

More to follow...
Barry Dorfman
Ten Forward C250wk #368

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2002 : 15:19:18

Barry,

The local SYNERGY refill yard in N.Y. suggests the same remedy. If you have an old tank in good condition the valve (old) can be replaced with the new. The problem here was that the replacement valve was the cost of a new tank. And so I opted for a new tank. Mind you I'm talking of the garden variety back yard bbq tank.

Val on "CALISTA" #3936

Val Bisagni

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2002 : 08:41:57

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
What's to prevent me from filling up my OPD-equiped home gas grill tank and then gravity filling my non-OPD tank? Is it inherently dangerous? And, if so, how dangerous?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Mark--you'd have to be pretty careful, using a scale and such. The OPD is required because refillers were commonly over-filling such that a little heat would cause the relief valve to blow a bunch of propane at a very inconvenient time. How important is $50-75 to you?

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2002 : 22:40:34

I was able to talk the guy at the filler place into filling mine anyway, even though the new law had gone into effect.<img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

Safe voyages,
Ben, FL s/v Chick-a-pea C250wk

Edited by - on

River Harley
Navigator

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132 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2002 : 19:28:27

An additional comment on this subject of the lid not fitting: I re-examined the problem with my propane locker box. After close examination I determined that the problem is NOT the propane tank, rather it is the LID itself. The lid is too thick. I was able to seat the lid completely, however, subtle pressure was still being brought-to-bear on the compartment lid - so subtle that it took a VERY close examination of the compartment lid hinge to detect that pressure was still, in fact, occurring on the hinge. This is why I had to cut the propane box lid down. Be careful that too much focus is being placed upon the propane tank, and not the lid, as the problem source. Good luck.

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Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2003 : 12:38:34

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df04b3127cce9456ef0901c80000001410" border=0>
I have wanted to post this picture for some time so that everyone experiencing this problem can make a comparison between the newer and older lids. Now that I know how to post a picture here it is.

Ray Seitz C 250WB #628 Sea Major

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Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2003 : 13:16:34

Ray,

Where did you get that new lid?

Bryan Beamer
Daylight Again
C250wk #495

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Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2003 : 16:44:23

That is the lid Seward provided with the containment unit(if you can call it that). Long ago when Mark posted the picture of his tank and lid I thought that perhaps the only change Seward really made to accept the newer tank/valve was the lid (cheaper and easier fix than to redesign the box). Just a guess! You have a fairly new hull number Bryan isn't your lid like the one I have?

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Seaward Products, who makes the containment boxes, sells the new tank (part #93270, list $72) but they tell me that I need a different lid to hold the new tank because (at least) the valve is taller. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote> I guess I didn't really think of that on my own.<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>

Edited by - Ray Seitz on 01/29/2003 16:47:53

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Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2003 : 19:37:47

My lid looks like this.

<img src="http://www.texassailor.com/Dcp00093.jpg" border=0>

I was able to fill my old tank right before the new law took effect. I am just preparing for when I run out of gas in the tank I have now. Should be good until this fall.

Bryan Beamer
Daylight Again
C250wk #495

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2003 : 19:57:08

The handle on the tank is the key to old valve or new valve. The newer valves have triangle shaped handles or so I have been told. I guess the valve is just different enough to cause problems for the older Seward setup.<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ray Seitz C 250WB #628 Sea Major

Edited by - on

jkey6
1st Mate

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71 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2003 : 17:27:21

Anyone tried to use a smaller tank mounted elsewhere on the boat.

Would be nice to get that locker back for storage. With the new law, now is a good time to make the change. Ideas?

JKEY6

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2003 : 19:50:18

Davis Northnagel mounted a tank on the stern to port of the swim ladder. Think its in the tech tips.

I am still using the Coleman throw away's and will likely stay with them. Part of the reason for staying with them, is that they are used for the grill as well, so will stay with one type.

I have however investigated running a line from the starboard coaming box to the stove. Coleman says the cannisters can be used in a horizontal position without problem. My holdup in doing this mod is that its just been too convenient to store the cannisters in the fuel locker above the gas tank and then take it to the stove when the stove is used. There is a quick coupler on it so its not a problem to hook up.

This may seem crude by modern standards.... but when growing up, we cooked on a wood cook stove and survived that without undo effect... so retreiving the Coleman cartridge when the stove is needed hasn't seemed to be an inconvenience.

But... back to your question, there have been some C25 owners who have made storage compartments with unique mounts to lifelines and stanchions.

I do agree that I would hate to give up the greater portion of the starboard locker to the gas cannister.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
R&R N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

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dannyhain
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2003 : 15:54:07

I am currently modifing my Butane Stove to the coleman type propane canisters too. I thought about using the starboard locker for the tank setup but couldnt justify giving up the room.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2003 : 20:23:29

Danny,

Academy Sporting Goods has a Coleman (I think) replacement valve with a long stem used to convert the old white gas stoves to propane. The threads on the stem are the same as the quick fitting on the cannister assembly your removing. This allows continuing to use the quick coupler and storing the coleman cartridges in the fuel locker when not in use.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
R&R N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

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dannyhain
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2003 : 23:11:54

Arlyn,
Thanks! That is exactly what I got at the local Wallmart. Should work great!

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Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2003 : 17:16:03

Without arguing the wisdom of it, I was able to persuade the guy where I fill my LP tanks at to do my 10.5 one more time without the OPD valve. He said he would do it this time but from now on just come after 5:00 PM.

Problem solved <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
and only cost me five dollars.

Safe voyages,
Ben, FL s/v Chick-a-pea C250wk
<img src="http://www.members.aol.com:/benraye/pictures/fullsail.jpg" border=0>

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2003 : 23:26:55

Without arguing the wisdom of it, I was able to persuade the guy where I fill my LP tanks at to do my 10.5 one more time without the OPD valve. He said he would do it this time but from now on just come after 5:00 PM.

Safe voyages,
Ben, FL s/v Chick-a-pea C250wk

I don't know why Big Brother determined that the old valves were dangerous, and we should be protected from ourselves ... end result, everyone has to go out and buy new tanks.

Since I've never heard of prior problems with the old valves, I'll pass this on ... BUT please use common sense ... if you have any doubt about the safety of your tank, get a new one.

One of my best friends owns an RV park, and he also sells propane. He went through a propane training course last summer, and there is a loophole for filling the tanks with the old valves. If you use a permanent marker or paint to write "For Industrial Use" on the tank, they are supposed to fill it, even if it has the old style valve.

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>

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