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Winches on Coaming

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/12/2008 : 23:48:12

I moved the winches this weekend. On the coaming they will allow for me to help with the sheets and the Admiral will no longer get pinned in by the main sheet which was a real annoyance for her. The Admiral must not be annoyed!

This mod has been described by others very well. I have lots of detail photos if anyone wants the details but for now I will focus on the finished product and the routing of the sheets to the winches.

Here is the new Lewmar 7C that will handle the main halyard duties:

Here is the starboard winch in its new location:

Here is the starboard sheet coming in from the jib:

The Ronstan car:

That leads to a Johnston swiveling eye on a rail mount and then a Ronstan block on a rail mount:

We haven't sailed yet but the lead looks fair and the angle to the winches looks good too.

While doing the project I decided to find out what a winch looks like inside and to clean and grease them:

I can't wait to try out the new setup. FYI in the photos you may see that I have moved the track mounted cleat to the aft position. I am going to use this cleat to affix my spring line for docking. The Lewmar 7C is not nearly as beefy as the 16STs and I do not want to subject it to the extra stress of absorbing any docking loads.

If you want pictures of the step-by-step let me know. Thank you to all who have done this mod before me and posted your photos. They were a great help!!

We cannot direct the winds but we can adjust our sails.

Edited by - on

Bob Jack
1st Mate

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USA
58 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2008 : 07:04:43

Yes Yes Yes....please...more pictures..! I have the same mod on my to do list..Single handing just isn't fun with the wenches way up there on the cabin top. Thanks for the help. It's nice to know, when your drilling holes in your boat, that someone else has gone before you.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2008 : 08:57:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bob Jack
 Single handing just isn't fun with the wenches way up there on the cabin top.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ain't that the truth!

Edited by - dlucier on 05/13/2008 08:58:26

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2008 : 11:39:16

I'm very jealous! Must do this next year as I will be soloing more and more I think.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2008 : 21:02:26

I know I need more wenches on my cabin top.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2008 : 22:19:54

Bob, more photos.

The starboard winch is removed. Access is from the panel in the ceiling of the galley area. Similar panel in the head provides access to the port winch fasteners:

Taped up for the Marine-Tex hole filling:

Holes filled and new holes drilled:

Holes drilled in the starboard coaming. I used fender washers for backing, same as Catalina used:

Winch base mounted on the coaming:

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2008 : 05:57:54

Randy, I know you must have used pretty big fender washers under the newly located winches, but isn't the hull pretty thin there compared to the cabin top?

The winches take a good bit of strain, and you might want to consider a backing plate to spread that load to prevent the dreaded spider cracks.

Did you have to remove the gunwhale cubbies to install the winches on the coamings????

Paul

Edited by - on

Bob Jack
1st Mate

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USA
58 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2008 : 07:47:54

Thanks Randy,
My to do list is very large but this is a priority,... coming before depth finder,G.P.S. chartplotter, electric water pump for galley,lazy jack system, wind spar (for that I'll need this http://www.mastmate.com/ ) ,naming and lettering,teak magazine racks...etc etc etc...I've only left off a few million other projects. About the only mod I've done so far is Arlyn's soft link. It's wonderful and my neighboring boaters all thank him for that.
I wonder if it's possible to get a winch with the same hole patern so as to alleviate the need for drilling & filling the cabin top?
Again , many thanks
Bob

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2008 : 09:44:00

Paul, conventional wisdom is that fender washers are fine. That was the feedback from Tom Potter and Arlyn Stewart who have both done this mod. If others have done differently it would be good to hear from them. The winch does not get up/down pressure, it is lateral pressure and on a straight line. I will not use the winches for my spring line. I will keep my eye out for any cracking. I did not have to remove anything for the coaming mount.

Bob, to get the same bolt pattern as the 16ST winch you would need to get one just like it. The 16ST is about $600 while the 7C is about $200. I felt that filling/drilling made more sense for me. Others have done what you are considering.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2008 : 15:05:30

Randy, very nice job. Two questions. I can see where one patch hole is. Can that be colored to match. Also, I was wondering about placement of new winch and about placing it a little farther back.
Bet the admiral is happy with both install and costs!
Steve A
ps. let us know how tests go.

Edited by - piseas on 05/14/2008 15:07:25

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2008 : 15:25:40

Steve, don't look so closely!

I actually mixed in some black tint to get a closer color match but I should have gone darker. This weekend I am doing some gelcoat touch ups and will touch up those spots. I also bought some blue tint because I think there is a tinge of blue in that gray. Matching colored gelcoat is a challenge.

Moving the new 7C back (aft) would have taken it off the round mounting pad that is on the deck. There is actually a smooth (not non-skid) round area for mounting the winch. Presumably it was designed for a smaller winch because, as you can see, the 16ST holes went outside the mounting area and onto the non-skid. If I were to move the winch aft it would expose two holes on the other (fore) side.

The part of the job I am least happy about is the port winch area where the other 16ST was removed. There you see all five patched holes and the difference in fading gelcoat. I will take a shot at gelcoating it with a better match for now but will probably mount another 7C there when they go back on sale. That winch will serve as the lifting winch for my future Lifesling system.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2008 : 16:01:18

Randy, sorry, my eyes are pretty bad. Must be your HD camera!

Steve A

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2008 : 16:06:33

I couldn't stand it having the bare winch mount with the patched holes on the port side. WM is having a 10% sale so I just ordered another 7C. A little closer gelcoat match on the little portions that show and I will have a first class job. Otherwise my eyes would always go to that empty winch mount. Thanks for the motivation, Steve!

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2008 : 15:51:42

Randy, anytime. That's what we are hear for. But remember you owe me!

Steve A

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2008 : 19:00:24

My PO installed coaming mounted winches and coaming tracks also. If I can figure out how to post a pic I'll put it here.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2008 : 22:51:44

Steve, go to the Testing Forum and there are instructions on how to post photos. It really helps your posting if you know how to add photos. I'm interested in seeing that coaming track!

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2008 : 16:47:23

Randy, I'm pretty computer illiterate, I'll see what I can do.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2009 : 21:32:09

As soon as it gets a little warmer around here, I am ready to move my winches to the coamings. I want to order my parts right now. I cannot seem to find these rail mounted blocks you use. Can someone please provide me with a part number?

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3320 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2009 : 22:03:33

Anyone know why Catalina installed the winches on the cabin top in the first place?

Edited by - on

ruachwrights
Captain

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USA
258 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2009 : 08:41:40

I talked to Catalina about whether or not it was safe to move the winches to the coming position and they said that the deck on the coming area was certainly sufficient for the load. According to Practical Sailor, the cabin top is balsa cored and the rest of the deck in plywood cored. Catalina questioned whether the sheeting angles would be correct on the coming, however, and I do think this is a legitimate concern for the rest of us. Now, I'm no Naval engineer, but my guess is that tighter sheeting angles yield better upwind performance. When I do this mod I will probably run the lines on the inside of the cabin top winch (which would now be a 7C) and then to a car and then to the coming winch. I'm hoping to put off this mod for a while because I'm hoping that when I install the wheel brake I will be able to move forward to the cabin top myself. Most times though I have a twelve or an eight year old son to grab the wheel while I move forward to adjust lines. Thanks for posting all the photos Randy!

Edited by - on

ruachwrights
Captain

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USA
258 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2009 : 08:43:53

Sorry, I guess it's coaming, not coming.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2009 : 09:37:14

Steve, I got my Ronstan rail-mounted blocks on ebay. They have worked very well. I like Ronstan and could not find these blocks anywhere else.

[url="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Sailboats-Ronstan-Staunchion-Blocks-2-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1171Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem260383923444QQitemZ260383923444QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGear"]Ronstan Rail-Mounted Block[/url]

Edited by - on

DJAnderson
1st Mate

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USA
29 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2009 : 10:37:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 Anyone know why Catalina installed the winches on the cabin top in the first place?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Two reasons I can think off: 1) From there they can double as halyard winches keeping costs low, and 2) Keeps the crew weight forward and out of the helmsman's way (moot point if you're singlehanded)

But yeah, certainly a trade-off that some obviously would have gone the other way on. I'm guessing this is a bigger issue with the wheel steered boats. With an extension on a tiller, it's possible to reach the winches without letting go.

Edited by - on

welshoff
Captain

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USA
253 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2009 : 20:19:49

FYI - I have my jib winches on the coamings and they work great (still have one cabin top winch on starboard side for the main halyard). In my opinion, no issue on mounting strength. I have cranked in the jib sheets in some strong winds and have sailed the last 4 years with no issues. Your sheeting angles will remain the same, as you still route the jib sheet through the factory block on the track on top of the cabin before the sheet goes through the stantion block and back to the winch (at least I do).

Here is a photo of the stantion blocks I use to route jib sheets to coaming winches (and sheets through factory block/track).

Here is photo from behind the winch looking forward at the jib line. It does impact the coaming step, but I usually go foward on the high side of the boat and the jib sheet is not in the way (lazy sheet).

I have angled teak winch pads below the winches on coamings to give a nice sheet angle (no over rides).

Here is another photo of winch/teak pad/angle of sheet to stantion block.

And one more (note: I am going down wind - wing on wing in last two photos - hence main sheet going to port and jib to starboard of boat). On this point of sail you do have to watch sheet when going up to cabin top. I was thinking of adding a second block to the outward stantion to re-route line so as not to interfere with coaming step. Add to project list.

Edited by - welshoff on 03/28/2009 20:31:59

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2009 : 22:13:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 Steve, I got my Ronstan rail-mounted blocks on ebay. They have worked very well. I like Ronstan and could not find these blocks anywhere else.

[url="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Sailboats-Ronstan-Staunchion-Blocks-2-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1171Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem260383923444QQitemZ260383923444QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGear"]Ronstan Rail-Mounted Block[/url]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Those are great, thanks Randy.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2009 : 22:17:29

Wil, that's a great idea of angling the winches with a piece of teak like you did. My preference would be a block of plastic or something, but the teak probably looks real nice too. I like how your sheets go from the cabin top to the winches directly so you don`t have winch overwrap. Randy could you repost this picture please and tell me if you experience winch overwrap with your setup please?:

This picture:

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 03/28/2009 22:18:04

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