Association Forum - Trailer winch tension

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Trailer winch tension

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

yachtsea
1st Mate

Member Avatar

USA
73 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/21/2017 : 14:22:10

Hi,

I noticed on my Capri16 but moreso, for obvious reason, on my Catalina 25, that when recovering her with many experienced members surrounding without comment (so must not be doing anything too different) that the tension on the cable to the bow eye is significant. The last couple feet, I started to wonder if the retractable keel was taking on too much weight or if the bunks could use some sort of treatment or if the bow eye was going to come hurling towards me, that's a lot of stress focused in a very small footprint.

Here are some pictures to give some context:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YyjGy9eLJRJlREs43
https://photos.app.goo.gl/D00DkD6Qd46n145A3
https://photos.app.goo.gl/4FYWd1d3usriVd5e2

The last one to help explain that this is a sailing-oriented launch and that fixed keels use it routinely. It drops quickly.

With my CP16, I use two reference points on the trailer frame. The first is to retrieve the boat and get her mostly on but the bow will dip below the winch mast and winch until I get back in the tow vehicle and pull the trailer out another foot or so to the crossmember just after of the tongue. This effectively raises the bow to where it can be winched on the rest of the way. The commodore, a mechanical engineer, and I spent a morning one day trying to get this down to a predictable pattern; else, the winged keel (CP16) would pick up the trailer and/or bind which made for a very unfun experience.

Anyway, this is about the C25 and I'm curious to hear others' stories about winch cable tension.

Thanks,

Carl

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2017 : 05:59:24

My boat had a fin keel and my trailer had roller bunks, so I can't answer all your questions that are specific to your situation, but I can start the discussion and someone else can get more specific.

The location of the bow eye is probably the strongest point on the boat. The first time I retrieved my 4' draft boat with my EZ Loader trailer, I backed it down to the water until the trailer's fenders were just awash, and then cranked it forward. As it moved forward, the trailer's swing arms lifted the boat and rotated forward until the boat was in place.

Similarly, a C25 fin keel owner at my lake neglected to lock his trailer winch, and the boat rolled off the roller bunk trailer in the parking lot. He cranked it back onto the trailer using only the trailer winch.

In both those instances the stress on the bow eye, trailer winch and cable was tremendous. I don't recommend that anyone do that, but it illustrates the the strength of the system. Nevertheless, the winch, cable and bow eye can deteriorate like anything else, and their condition should be evaluated before you put that much load on them.

When you load a boat onto a fixed bunk trailer, the trailer should be backed in deep enough so that the boat can float into place. If you have to use the winch to drag the boat forward, I'd guess that the trailer isn't deep enough. If you are unable to back it in that far, then you might need a tongue extension for the trailer.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2017 : 07:23:44

quote:
When you load a boat onto a fixed bunk trailer, the trailer should be backed in deep enough so that the boat can float into place. If you have to use the winch to drag the boat forward, I'd guess that the trailer isn't deep enough. If you are unable to back it in that far, then you might need a tongue extension for the trailer.

I agree.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

yachtsea
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2017 : 07:59:01

I agree but seeing it in writing helps me think that I need to adjust the bunks upward. I've tried many approaches varying from deeper than I thought to shallower and if I go deeper, the bow comes in beneath the winch's bow-stop so and that is why I pull out, to get the bow to clear (goes up as you haul out, obviously) but then I wind up needing to reel her in the last 24 inches.

Carl

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2017 : 09:11:10

Let's try changing the procedure I suggested earlier. Do this first:

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

I would set up the trailer bunks so that the boat can float up to and under the trailer's bow stop. The problem appears to be that the boat floats too far forward, until it is under the bow stop. When you haul out, I'd suggest you crank in the winch cable enough so that the bow will be within about 6" of the bow stop. Then I'd have someone stand on the trailer hitch and push the bow back, so that the winch cable is not slack, and the bow will clear the bow stop. Then I'd pull the trailer forward just enough so that the boat's hull rests lightly on the bunks. You should only have to pull forward a foot or two.

Now, before you pull the boat and trailer any further up the ramp, winch the boat in that extra 6". Remember, at this point the hull is only resting lightly on the bunks. The bow should have risen about as high as it's going to. It should be easy to winch it forward while the bunks are wet and the boat is resting lightly on them.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 12/22/2017 11:47:07

yachtsea
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2017 : 11:17:48

Hi Steve,

You nearly described my CP16 recovery to a T and while the C25 is manageable, I want it to be correct and I think that problem lies in the bunk height. One observation that when I brake at 2mph with the CP16, snugs right up (1350lbs), when I do it with the C25, 2-3mph, flat, down even a bit, zero movement which echoes the supreme tension on the winch cable when bringing it in.

Luckily, I have access to an older 4x4, the launch can literally be vacant for days so I'll have some time, as I did with the 16, to practice and make some observations.

It's an art and a science.

Carl

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2017 : 11:49:50

oooops! I accidentally edited my previous post instead of making a new post.

Nevertheless, read my previous post for another idea that might help.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

WesAllen
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2017 : 19:43:00

My experience has been a launch with a steep angle not very easy for bunk trailers.(Very easy to unload though). The bow will go up as the trailer is pulled out of the water and nearly impossible to winch forward. A shallower angle with tongue extension is much easier to load. At least with my swinger. When loading at the ramp I use in Florida I must go in and out several times to slowly work it further on the trailer a few inches at a time. Takes a little longer but still much cheaper than having it lifted on. (I may be a little fussy about how it set on the trailer as I tow it back to Michigan every year)

Wesley Allen
"Breaking Wind"
1982 C-25 SR/TR/SK #2773
Hemlock, MI

JB
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
110 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2017 : 07:46:47

One small advantage of strap launching is that I can lower the front of the trailer with the jacks to level it out. Even so, the tension on the bow eye strap is high. Big disadvantage is that I can't easily make adjustments.

1988 C25 Wing Keel Std Rig Tohatsu 9.9 Tiller Steering and 2003 C250 Wing Keel Std Rig Inboard Diesel Wheel Steering

Edited by - JB on 12/23/2017 07:51:51

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 12/25/2017 : 14:42:57

With "strap launching" retrieval, we found that attaching a 50' x 3/8" line to the winch post and running it back to each genoa winch and snugging it up tight helped secure the boat and decrease sliding back on the trailer.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2017 : 10:04:19

I manage a steep ramp by loading to within 1.5 - 2 feet of the bow stop and pulling out to finish on the level. I have rollers and an electric winch, but it was a lot of tension when I used to hand crank it. As noted, steep ramps make recovery interesting. UHMD super slick bunk toppers will make winching easier, but 5-6 thousand pounds is heavy.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.