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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

back stay question

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Good Times
1st Mate

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45 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/01/2017 : 17:55:44

I ordered a new backstay (single) for my 1990 TR WK (6012)boat from Catalina Direct. It came 5 inches longer than mine, but was made according to the built specs provided by Catalina ( we checked those and re- measured the new stay).
Mine appeared to be the original with the pigtail, no alterations to the boat as far as I can see...
Where there some 'minor' built changes at Catalina in the very late models??
Yes, we checked the mast length (30 ft) and there is no significant mast rake. On top of it, I replaced the uppers two years ago without any issues. Any thoughts??

Andy Kohler

C25 #6012 TR WK
traditional layout

16ft Hobie Cat
23.5 Hunter

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2017 : 19:11:35

If I understand you correctly, your new backstay is 5" longer than the old one that you're replacing.

Of course that could be because the new one was made too long by the fabricator, but it could also be that the old one was made too short. When I bought my Cal 25, the PO replaced all the standing rigging. He had the forestay made the correct length, but he had the backstay made too short. I had to measure the stays to figure out what he did wrong, and add a spacer to the backstay to correct it. Apparently the PO of my Cal thought he knew more about rigging than the boat's designer.

Catalina Direct put this disclaimer in the catalogue with regard to the backstay. "Note:The length of this item is based on the original factory specifications. However, the previous owner, like Captain Jack Sparrow, may have had an entirely different idea about how to rig a boat! Please confirm this is the correct length for your particular boat." I guess Cat. Direct is aware of the inclination of some owners to mess with things that they don't really understand.

I suggest you proceed on the assumption that the length of the new backstay is correct.

My approach to rig tuning is to start by making the mast plumb, both fore and aft as well as laterally. I use a level with a bubble to check it fore and aft. I use the jib halyard to check it laterally. Then I adjust the forestay and backstay to tilt the mast aft about 2" and then sail the boat in about 10 kts wind. I take note of the feel of the tiller when sailing closehauled. You should feel a light weather helm. If you don't, then tilt the mast aft a little more, but no more than about 4". If the weather helm is too heavy, tilt the mast forward a bit. A light weather helm is a good thing.

If you follow this procedure and are able to tilt it aft (rake it) enough to get a comfortable amount of weather helm, then I'd say the length is about right.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Good Times
1st Mate

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45 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2017 : 20:49:53

Thanks for your detailed reply;
There is no issue with C.D. they did use the specified length from Catalina: 34'9", they offered to shorten it or send me a compression fitting to shorten it myself; very nice folks indeed.
the issue is that mine measured only 34'4" - of course I thought it was the standard length and did only measure it when I saw the difference in length between the two stays. I actually ordered mine an inch shorter bc my turnbuckle was maxed out with the studs almost all the way to center.
I do have a slight mast rake, of about 4-5" as measured with a plumb bob attached to the main halyard and the desired slight weather helm; the boat sails great in this set-up. The forestay supports a Harken furler which normally does not require modifications of the stay itself.
But - I will use the new stay as is, IF I have enough turnbuckle left in the fore stay to tighten up the rig and see how she looks and sails; I can always shorten it with a compression fitting...
Again, tanks for your response.

Andy Kohler

C25 #6012 TR WK
traditional layout

16ft Hobie Cat
23.5 Hunter

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2017 : 05:04:17

When I ordered a new back stay from CD they required me to measure my old one and supply them with the measurements that my back stay was. It's a custom made part and is made to any length you tell them. If in doubt you can send them your old one so they can match it. I don't know how it came about that they used Catalina's generic measurements.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3754 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2017 : 09:41:45

My old backstay was maxed out with zero rake, generous weather helm, and inadequate fore and aft tension unless I maxed the adjustable component. I suspect it was original and stretched from 30 years of use. I had a local rigger make a new one 6" shorter that gave me satisfactory tension and a vertical mast with the turnbuckle screwed in about an inch, 2" overall. That turned out to be very close to the design length and let me put in a little rake. It is also comforting to have rigging of known age.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2017 : 19:42:35

I think I am old school, but . . . . Years ago when replacing my standing rigging I seriously considered CD but needed up at a local rigger as I suspected that no two boats are quite the same and I valued their opinion based on the boat and my sailing (cruising vs racing) At the time I think I paid about the same, but I knew that any modificationsy with my boat would be taken into consideration. Years of use, possible changes made by PO, and how we, the current owner, sails all enter into the decision.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2017 : 20:02:53

Peter--the rigger at Norwalk Cove Marina back in the early 2000s (Bill) installed my complete standing rigging package from CD--he recommended I get it from them rather than having him make it. You may have known him ("Mr. Clean" with the big green racing sloop and a Finn racing dinghy). I think he shortened the backstay, and then the result was perfect.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/03/2017 20:05:01

Good Times
1st Mate

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45 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2017 : 03:57:32

I resolved the problem according to the 'making lemonade out of lemons' mantra and will convert to the adjustable backstay set-up, using a compression fitting to create the much shorter back stay. I had it on my C22 and loved it, just had not seen the 'incentive' to tackle it on the C25.
Interestingly, CD did say that Catalina on occasions made changes to a single hull when testing new set ups etc. especially in the late models. The problem could have been avoided if they had ask me to provide the length of my existing stay, but neither of us realized at the time that mine was not 'standard'.
All is well in the end and the folks at CD were more than gelpful to resolve the issue.

I am in the south, and the boat will get back in the water soon to continue year round sailing.
Cheers

Andy

Andy Kohler

C25 #6012 TR WK
traditional layout

16ft Hobie Cat
23.5 Hunter

Sam001
Vice Commodore

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USA
441 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2017 : 03:59:24

Great details all. This forum continues to yield knowledge to the members that does not exist anywhere else. thanks.

Capt Sam, USCG Master Near Coastal
Isle of Hope, GA. Charleston,SC. Lake Murray, SC.
Aboard Bobbin - 1982 Standard Rig-Swing Keel #2963 Dinette Model
"On a powerboat you are going somewhere....On a Sailboat you are Already There!" Capt Sam

http://my.boatus.com//memberPhotos/6315398_1_25502.jpg

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