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Rigging twin headsails

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dmreason
Deckhand

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2 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/30/2017 : 03:41:40

I race against boats that carry a spinnaker down wind and I cannot keep up. I do not want the expense of a spinnaker as I often sail singlehanded. Someone suggested that I rig twin headsails, anyone out there have any experience with this?

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3312 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2017 : 10:15:06

If you are racing against fellow C25's, ask the PHRF Committee to add 12 secs to your rating which would make it 235 or 240 depending om rig type.

Derek Crawford
Chief Measurer C25-250 2008
Previous owner of "This Side UP"
1981 C-25 TR/FK #2262 Used to have an '89 C22 #9483, "Downsized"
San Antonio, Texas

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9015 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2017 : 14:37:03

Here's an article... It assumes a twin-track furler, as made by Harken and others. Related to Derek's point, two headsails would invalidate your PHRF rating for a non-spin C-25--a committee might decide to rate you as a spinnaker boat.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/30/2017 14:39:27

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2017 : 15:07:49

I have raced with twin headsails that were bent onto twin headfoils, but not with twin headsails that were hanked onto the forestay. In the latter case I think (but am not sure because I've never seen it done that way) one sail is hanked on in the usual manner, and the other is only attached by the tack and the top hank. If so, I think flying twin headsails that are hanked on would only be useful for cruisers.

When flying twin headsails, one is set to a whisker pole and the other flies free. For a singlehander to set a pole downwind, an autopilot would be a necessity. Dave's article is very good, but aimed at long distance cruisers. It calls for use of a separate pole for each jib, but one is enough. In fact, about 8 hours into our twin headsail race our single pole snapped, and we sailed the last 4-5 hours with both jibs flying free (no pole), and with no noticeable reduction in speed.

It's easier to keep both jibs flying without poles if the wind is strong and steady. The jib that is opposite the mainsail is the more difficult one to keep filled without a pole. If it alternately gets backwinded and collapses and re-fills with a loud bang, it's because the wind spilling off the mainsail into the jib is overflowing over the leech of the jib, backwinding it. If you trim the sheet so that the leech is further aft, the jib should stop collapsing. Instead of the excess wind flowing over the leech of the jib and backwinding it, that wind will flow forward to the luff of the jib. From there it will flow onto the opposite jib, increasing the pressure on it.

In order to keep both sails filled, you must steer within a fairly narrow range that is nearly DDW. The second headsail definitely increases speed, and DDW is the shortest distance to downwind. IMHO, in the right conditions, twin headsails can be as fast as, or faster downwind than a spinnaker. For that reason, twin headsails are often prohibited by local rules or by PHRF, unless they are specifically permitted by the sailing instructions. In that case, they generally compete only against each other, in a seaprate class. If the local organization would allow you to race with twin headsails, and if you would start beating spinnaker boats, I think it is likely that they would soon change their minds and prohibit them.

I have raced with twin headsails in 18-25 kt winds, and was pleased to see that the boat is very stable with twin headsails. Because the wind force is on both sides, we saw no tendency to yaw or become difficult to control in the gusts.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 09/30/2017 17:32:46

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9015 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2017 : 21:19:49

I can imagine twin genoas would be faster than a spinnaker, and much quicker to set in a round-the-buoys race, with or without poles. (A tug of a sheet, and you're set--then releasing a sheet while rounding the downwind mark and you're back to a windward configuration.) Two 155s would be like one heck of a huge spinnaker, although with a lot of its area down lower.

I'm not sure why both sails couldn't be hanked on the same way, although hoisting and dousing would take some coordination--as they would also seem to if the head of the sail was hanked on (as opposed to flying directly off the halyard alone, like a spinnaker). I've heard of the twin-track furler or luff-foil approach--never the hank-on approach, and never sailed on a boat with either. But it's an interesting concept for ease-of-use.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/30/2017 21:24:40

dmreason
Deckhand

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2 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2017 : 02:13:22

Thanks for all the responses. Perhaps I should have supplied more info.
1. We are lake sailing in East Tennessee where the winds are often light and variable
2. My competition is mixed J24, Santana 525, Catalina 27
3. Our races are Pursuit format and we have a modified local handicaping system
The twin headsail idea was for light air races 3-5 knot winds. I would have a 150 Genoa hanked on and free fly a 170 Drifter on the other side polled out.
With all that being said, we went out yesterday and won 3 of 4 races in 15 knot winds with just the 150 Genoa. Part of the downwind legs were on a broad reach and a part wing on wing with the Genoa polled out. It's amazing what a nice breeze can do for boat speed.

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2017 : 04:01:07

I raced my C25 T/FK for 23 years on a small lake where, because of the size and shape of the lake and prevailing wind direction, we couldn't set really long spinnaker legs, and beat the spinnaker boats consistently with my jib and main. If you always scrub the bottom before a race, you'll gain a boat speed advantage over most who don't bother. In addition, where the spinnaker run is short, if they make a mistake in the hoist or take down, you'll sail by them. A boat with jib and main can run downwind in strong winds almost as fast as one with a spinnaker. If the rules don't limit the length of your pole and you extend it as far as you can, you can also sail nearly as fast downwind as with a spinnaker, even in more moderate winds.

Because I found ways to win races without using a spinnaker, I never bothered to learn how to fly them until I retired and lived in Maryland all summer, and I regret not learning sooner. Now I'm struggling to learn it at age 75, and it's killing my race results. I suggest you buy an old, cheap spinnaker online, round up crew to help you use it, not in races, but just in casual sailing, and ask one of the skilled racers to teach you how to rig and fly it. If you become skilled and develop a skilled crew, maybe you'll decide to spring for a new spinny to race. At some time in the future, I'll bet you'll be glad you know how to do it.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3312 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2017 : 08:12:45

I have a hard time believing that a C25 with a poled-out genoa is slower than one with a spinnaker. On Canyon Lake I could hold my own downwind against J22's and in the Nationals on the Columbia on Alice Patten's boat we beat every spinnaker boat to the finish line in all 7 races.

Derek Crawford
Chief Measurer C25-250 2008
Previous owner of "This Side UP"
1981 C-25 TR/FK #2262 Used to have an '89 C22 #9483, "Downsized"
San Antonio, Texas

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9015 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2017 : 08:19:01

quote:
Originally posted by dmreason

...Our races are Pursuit format and we have a modified local handicaping system...

You start flying two big headsails and your R/C might start you last in the pursuit.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2017 : 10:22:50

quote:
Originally posted by Derek Crawford

I have a hard time believing that a C25 with a poled-out genoa is slower than one with a spinnaker. On Canyon Lake I could hold my own downwind against J22's and in the Nationals on the Columbia on Alice Patten's boat we beat every spinnaker boat to the finish line in all 7 races.

I agree. I passed spinnaker boats with my poled out jib and mainsail in the national regatta and won both my national championships using jib and main against spinnaker boats. If you're allowed to use a fully extended telescoping whisker pole, it's a great equalizer.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 10/01/2017 10:26:35

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2017 : 06:14:31

quote:
Originally posted by Derek Crawford

I have a hard time believing that a C25 with a poled-out genoa is slower than one with a spinnaker. On Canyon Lake I could hold my own downwind against J22's and in the Nationals on the Columbia on Alice Patten's boat we beat every spinnaker boat to the finish line in all 7 races.

Practical boat owner came to the same conclusion for displacement boats.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

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