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Replacing wire lifelines

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/28/2017 : 06:27:51

My stanchions are in good shape, don't leak and aren't bent (which tells me they're pretty well made). When I'm walking around the deck going forward however, they don't give me a lot of confidence that they'd somehow hold my weight and allow me to stay with the boat in case of a sudden wake or slip in my footing. I've got the original wire cable that's coated in plastic. No idea whether it would hold up in case of a fall.

I have read that plastic coated wire is no longer best practice and several racing organizations have forbidden it. So I'd like to know what others have done.

I could:
1. Find some foam tubing like pool noodles or purpose made covers and just dress up the current lifelines. Doesn't fix the underlying problem.
2. Replace the cable with wire rope. I'd guess CD offers a kit. I also have my perfectly good 10 year old mast rigging I could swage new ends onto. They're in good shape with no meathooks.
3. I could replace the wire with line - dyneema ain't cheap however - would standard halyard line work?
4. Has anybody run a second line underneath the top one to add something more to grab onto or for kids and pets?

It's one of those eyesores and potential problems that is way down the list, but with the folks on this forum, I'd guess direct folks have their own solutions and opinions.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

bjoye
Navigator

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USA
105 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2017 : 06:57:23

Same issue here just a month ago. The plastic coating was brittle, cracked, and showed signs of rust under. So I stripped the plastic from the wire to see how bad. I was surprised on how good the condition the wire was in. I closely examined all of the connections, and where the wire went through a stanchion, and all looked good except for a light layer of crud/rust. I took some polishing compound to the wire and it now looks nice and shinny. I did a few safety tests by laying on my side on the deck and pressing against the wire with feet to see how much pressure the wire and stanchions could take before flexing.

It did take some effort to remove the plastic coating. Using an X-ACTO knife, I was able to cut the coating without scoring the wire. The frustrating part was in the areas where the plastic was brittle. It would just flake off, one small piece at at time. Where the plastic was more pliable, I could score a section and peal it away.

Another item, I was able to loosen all of the turnbuckles with great effort, and re-greased them, so I could readjust the tension. All in all it took about 2 hours in the hot sun, but a lot cheaper and faster than outright replacing.

"Frayed Knot" 1989 C-25 WK/SR #5878

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2017 : 07:27:49

Hello Again,

I am in almost the same boat. Parden the pun. My boat does not currently have lifelines or stanchions. she does have the bow and stern pulpits thankfully. My plan is to replace them eventually however, I am going back and forth with the idea that a PFD with built in harness, tether and jack lines will provide a greater amount of real security and safety. At this point, I believe I will be doing the former first in priority as I sail mostly single handed. There are folks out there using dyneema lifelines but I have no experience with that so don't know the pros and cons. Maybe one of our more experienced members will be able to offer some advice. CD does in fact sell both vinyl coated and non coated lifeline kits. Fair winds all.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2017 : 13:21:24

We too intend to replace the existing lifelines...mostly. The existing wire sections connected to the stern pulpit upon a very close inspection seem fine, it is the two lifelines running up to the bow pulpit that need replacing, and I plan to use Dyneema line. There are several really clear and helpful YouTube videos detailing how to eye-splice the Dyneema, and that's our plan. C.S. Johnson offers a series of hardware for this purpose: http://www.csjohnson.com/marinecatalog/z00029.htm It is a lot less expensive that the kits.

We've far exceeded our maintenance allowance this year due to some bad luck...the OB prop got snagged on a float line, and the keel winch needed replacement due to operator error (TIP - don't have a guest raise the keel...)

IMHO - you need both, all the personal safety gear mentioned (particularly when solo), but will also be glad to have the lifelines, especially with guests aboard (no matter how rarely).I also would not feel too comfortable with the stress test administered. The lifelines will become important under dynamic conditions (pitching, rolling hard, accidental jibe w/ passengers on the cabin top, etc...) and will receive a sudden shock load, not the gradual stress given by simply leaning into them. They could still easily fail.

I've got all the parts, now I just need to find the time....

Jerry

Edited by - jerlim on 07/28/2017 13:26:03

Go Slo
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2017 : 13:31:52

I made sure my were in decent shape by inspecting them and hanging off them a bit. Ultimately, I dressed mine up by spraying them with white plasti dip. At least they look better now......

"GO Slo" 1989 Catalina 25 SR/WK standard interior

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2017 : 13:37:11

I have damaged a stanchion during swing out of a slip. The lifelines held, but 3 mounting screw broke as the stanchion and base bent. Lifelines aren't as secure as a tether but will keep you aboard in a slip or stumble.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2017 : 13:39:28

I wonder how many people use life lines the way I do. I pull up on them as I walk, adding downward force to my footing and not taking the stanchions out of "column".
When I replaced my LL on a different boat I used the chance to make reversible gates on both sides of the boat. The Life Lines terminated at the last stanchion with a ring, I then had short sections of life lines made with pelican hooks on both ends to go from the aft stanchion to the stern rail. It really made boarding friendly regardless of which side was pull over to the finger, I like people holding onto the stern rail when they board but sometimes the stanchion end of the gate was the right end to open... I had the choice.

Frank Hopper

Edited by - pastmember on 07/28/2017 14:36:22

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2017 : 15:23:56

After reading Frank's method on here some years ago, I've been using it ever since. When you want to use the lifeline, pull up on it - the line gets taught and your feet get planted - works great! It also becomes instinctive, which is probably handy.

Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2017 : 15:31:06

Also, you don't need dyneema. Halyard line would work great. The stanchion would bend or rip out of the deck before the halyard line failed.

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2017 : 19:29:17

I replaced my original (1980) lifelines that were vinyl/plastic covered two seasons ago. My compromise was non-covered wire for all but the lines between the rear station and "gate" stantion, which I replaced with vinyl covered wire so when sitting and leaning back it would not tear/snag clothes. I have more confidence now than before with the replaced wire life lines. At that time I also considered adding a second, lower wire life line but decided that the age of my kids was old enough (better be in mid-20's) that the benefit was not worth the expense. The important thing is to have life lines that are safe and not corroded/failing.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

C25BC
Navigator

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Canada
200 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2017 : 07:46:05

My lifelines are showing there age as well , original i would say , noticing a bit of rust where the fittings are attached and the coating is deteriorated. I've been considering peeling of the coating wasn't sure if it was another "can of worms" . Also was thinking of just replacing the lengths up to the gate on each side , the gates have the cd direct covers . Won't be this year though .

Angus
S.V.Tempus
#4748
1984 Catalina 25 SK/SR/Trad.

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2017 : 15:51:06

4. Has anybody run a second line underneath the top one to add something more to grab onto or for kids and pets?
I had lifeline netting forward of the cockpit, back when my kids were young, and windclothes around the cockpit.

RichardG 81 FK/SR #2657
Terminal Island, CA

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2017 : 19:55:44

Have over the years considered adding the lower life lines but decided that overall not necessary. I also am not sure if our stations are high enough to make the location of a lower life line helpful or more a nuisance. Will be interested in others thoughts.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2017 : 21:44:37

I'm wondering whether I can cut my old SS wire rigging and add swaged ends to replace the original plastic coated wire? Who sells self-swaged ends to add to the ends? Are they sufficient to stand up to the constant tugging or would I be better off finding a marina with a machine shop to do them professionally? I'd guess Brewers Marina could do it for me. I've found some great foam float noodles that would go over the wires to prevent discomfort.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2017 : 07:34:40

Unfortunately. It's not the wire that's expensive, It's the hardware. They do sell kits that are Noresman type compression fittings. No swageing needed.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2017 : 07:57:14

quote:
Originally posted by bigelowp

Have over the years considered adding the lower life lines but decided that overall not necessary. I also am not sure if our stations are high enough to make the location of a lower life line helpful or more a nuisance. Will be interested in others thoughts.

Like many things, it's a matter of your individual needs and preferences. Years ago I was crewing on a Capri 25, which has only one lifeline, like the Catalina 25s. As I was grinding the leeward winch after tacking, the wind filled the sail and the boat heeled to leeward suddenly, I pulled on the winch handle, lost my balance and went head-first under the lifeline into the water. A lower lifeline would have stopped me.

My thinking is, if you have small children or a rambunctious pet, netting stretched between two lifelines is helpful. If you sail offshore, the second lifeline would help prevent crew from separating from the boat. If you sail on a small lake and can swim, falling overboard isn't the worst thing that can happen. I sailed on one lake where swimming from a boat was prohibited, so, on a hot day, sailors often "accidentally fell overboard" to cool off. Consider your own needs and do what works for you.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2017 : 08:17:46

Hi Guys,

About adding a second life line. Sense my boat currently has none and I need to buy new stauncions I considered buying them setup for double lines. The stauncions CD sells for our boats are actually made and supplied by Garhauer. The stancions for our boats are 22" tall where most stancions with double lines are 24". One thing to consider before adding that second line is can you pull yourself back aboard between the lines should you suddenly find yourself in the water. provided of coarse that you were tethered. There are many accounts of this happening. So if you run that second line at say half of the 22", thats 11". So, your body size and add whatever gear you may be wearing. Just one more thing to think about. And yes, if you were wearing a tether and went overboard, it was too long.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2017 : 08:55:30

quote:
One thing to consider before adding that second line is can you pull yourself back aboard between the lines

I think your best bet is the swim ladder. I swim off my boat and I'm not real sure I could possibly reach up the side to the deck or pull myself up from there ( never tried it). The swim ladder on my boat has a velcro strap that secures it and is down low so that it is reachable from the water. Also with the added step that I added to the bottom makes the ladder easy to negotiate.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 08/03/2017 09:08:48

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2017 : 12:27:23

Back Again,

I like the idea of an easily accessable way to lower the swim ladder. Right now, mine is not. I will remedy that ASAP. If you are single handing and go over the side, hopefully tethered, reaching the swim ladder is probably out of the question. Your best hope would be that you went over on the leeward side thereby making a stauncion base reachable. Hopefully.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2017 : 14:42:43

I always thought it to be a good idea when single sailing to have a 30ft line with knots every foot tied to the back dragging in the water. If you did end up in the water the boat is probably going to keep sailing for a while or if on an auto pilot a long while. You could then disconnect from the teather and go for the line. But yes the teather is too long if you are in the water.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2017 : 15:19:25

Hi Scott,

That 30' line trailing behind the boat with hand over hand knots sounds like another good idea. One which I will give serious thought to. Thanks.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

bjoye
Navigator

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USA
105 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2017 : 15:54:14

Practical Boat Owner did an article and video for Summer 2012 issue, on Man Overboard drills, tethers, and recovery. I found the video but I'm unable to find the article right now. In summary, the results show that a man on a tether at speeds over 2 knots drowns within a minute or so. And no-one has the strength to hold on to a tether behind a boat going more that a knot or two.

Your only hope if you fall overboard is to be on a very short tether on the wind ward side, which keeps your upper body above water. The article sites several real life accidents in which the person survived only by cutting the tether. Long tethers are a death sentence.

https://youtu.be/uUx6oZTCQc8

"Frayed Knot" 1989 C-25 WK/SR #5878

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2017 : 18:57:19

On Passage I don't have a tether - I've tried them but I cannot work on the boat or sail it properly - I'm always getting tripped up or it hangs up on something - yoiks! So I keep one hand for me and the other hand for the boat.

Obviously at some point I'll screw up, but so far so good. I have done a few things to help if I go overboard. I saw that movie where everyone went swimming and there was no way to get back in the boat!

My boarding ladder is easy to swing down. I have a line keeping it in the upright retracted position but the line is tied with a hitch near waterline so I can release the ladder while I'm in the water. I added a loop from the bow cleat and another one from the stern cleat that almost touches the water. I can wriggle my body into the loop, then stand on it and climb back onto the boat.

I've thought that if the boat were in motion, I'd never be able to catch up with it. My home made tiller tamer will keep the boat on a more or less straight course for minutes at a time. If I went overboard I'd just have to say sayonara to Passage - it's very unlikely that she'd ever come back for me...

Therefore, while I'm out I almost always wear my Mustang inflatable life jacket. It's got a CO2 cartridge that autoinflates. If that fails, I can blow it up (provided I'm still conscious). I figure I can dog paddle for a long time with a PFD on, provided the water's not cold. My PFD has a whistle and a waterproof light. I've got a "water resistant" portable VHF radio, but it's no good if it gets wet. Now I keep it in a ziplock bag.

Totally not fool proof, but reasonable.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Lee Panza
Captain

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465 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2017 : 19:21:40

Here are a few ideas on this subject, for whatever they might be worth to anyone.

First, stainless steel can deteriorate, especially when it isn't surrounded by a sufficiently oxygen-rich environment. Water (salt water in particular) intruding by capillary action under the covers on covered lifelines can cause serious degradation. If there are rusty stains on the surface there is almost certainly more extensive damage in the form of crevice corrosion (not easily observed until the metal fails catastrophically). Vinyl covered lifelines are a BAD idea.

The lifelines on a Cat25 are easily replaced. I used Norseman swageless fittings on my standing rigging (Norseman fittings are no longer made, but there are other manufacturers), but I used hand-swaged Suncor fittings for my lifelines (more easily checked and replaced if I see signs of degradation). The lifeline replacement was a relatively easy DIY project.

The only place I really wanted greater security than the single lifeline is at the foredeck, so I added nylon mesh between the pulpit and the first stanchions (see the picture below). This helps contain a headsail as it's coming down, and the anchor rode when it's coming up, not to mention my body if I slip while I'm up there. This was a bit of a project, but I feel a lot more comfortable up there when I'm underway and the sea condition is "bouncy."

It may be overkill, but I wear a double tether plus another single tether. And I've added folding pad-eyes at several points around the foredeck and the cockpit. I have jacklines running the length of the cabintop on both sides. And, if I should go over, I keep a length of safety line draped over the topsides from the bow cleats to the quarter cleats, with another short length draped around the transom from quarter to quarter (see the photo). If I go over I'll be hanging from a tether (probably the long one - the short one would have kept me on board, but it can be difficult to work while on a short tether); if I'm still able to function I would clip a second tether to this safety line and cut-away the first one. This would slide me back to where I have access to the transom safety line for the third tether (unclipping the second one before I slide around the corner).

Of course, I have to admit that this is all theoretical. Within the next year or two I'll trailer to boat to someplace with water that's warm enough to try testing this theory. But in the meantime it allows me to worry a little less.

Like I said, just some ideas to consider.

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.