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panhead1948
Captain

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345 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/23/2016 : 15:18:08

Got my new Tohatsu today and haven't taken it down to the boat yet. Is the power cable supplied with the moter long enough to reach the batteries under the starboard settee? IF not how did you hook up the motor.

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2016 : 15:40:56

Most likely not.
I have a disconnect just inside the hull on the stern then new lines running to the batteries.
I have to be honest I had the yard rig it. They did a very neat job. We have to haul our boats each year and remove the motor so the disconnect gets used every year..
I will take some photos when I get out to her. Won't get back till Tues. night so will post when I get home.

John Gisondi
Peregrine #4762

*

panhead1948
Captain

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345 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2016 : 16:50:21

That would be great. I can use it without the electric start for awhile

dalelargent
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2016 : 00:43:37

I would certainly tape off the electrical leads of the motor before starting the motor.

I am not certain, but I bet your new motor has an alternator/generator and therefore would be supplying current down those cables. Seems bad if they were to touch.

Please correct my info if wrong. Just want everyonge to stay safe. :)

1989 c25 WK/TR #5838
1998 Catalina 36 mkii
1983 Vagabond 14

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3993 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2016 : 03:32:43

There won't be any electrical output from the motor charge port without a battery hooked up to it to complete the circuit. The regulator sense's the lack of resistance and doesn't send current. The regulator protects your battery from being over charged by sending less current as the battery gets closer to being fully charged. Without a battery hooked up it senses no demand for power.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

panhead1948
Captain

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345 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2016 : 07:51:09

I talked to Tohatsu and they said to tape up the ends or disconnect the cables from the motor until I get it connected to the battery

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3993 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2016 : 08:55:32

My Honda comes with a rubber cap that goes over the port if you were to use the motor on a dink or boat that doesn't need to charge a battery. It just protects the port from dirt or water. I would think they say to tape it for the same reason and to keep the two wires from touching. Put a test light or voltage meter on the port or wires,,There will be no output. Connect the two wires to a battery and bingo, 14.2 volts.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 06/24/2016 09:06:10

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3754 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2016 : 10:31:04

I put a trolling motor receptacle on the stern wired to the battery switch and a plug on the wires from the motor. it's a twist lock - water tight,quick to disconnect and doesn't come loose.

edit: photos in PEARL'S BITS AND PIECES album.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Edited by - Dave5041 on 06/24/2016 10:32:50

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9014 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2016 : 12:52:14

Tohatsu probably worries you'll touch the two bare wires with your hands or body, in which case the circuit closes with resistance, and "bingo, 14.2 volts" (~85 watts).

Then when you let go, "bingo", the alternator is fried.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3993 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2016 : 13:48:40

Exactly, Also never disconnect the charge wires from the battery when the engine is running. You can disconnect from the battery when the engine is off then you can restart the engine without doing any harm.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
465 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2016 : 07:42:07

When you do install your extension cable to the battery, use wire that's large enough to be safe and to minimize voltage drop for recharging the battery (if you use battery power for more than just the occasional start). The alternator in a 9.8 HP Tohatsu is rated to deliver about 6A, at which level the ABYC spec calls for #10 wire(s) for the run (total, incl. both legs) of 20 to 25 feet or so. And use marine-grade wire and components: a couple of good sources are GenuineDealz.com (http://genuinedealz.com/) and Tinned Marine Wire.com (https://tinnedmarinewire.com/). Hoping this helps.

Oh, and as long as we're discussing this, connect the + lead from the motor to the system side of the fuse or breaker that you should have very close to the + terminal of your battery. Never connect any load - or charging source - directly to that terminal of the battery.

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)

Edited by - Lee Panza on 06/25/2016 07:53:49

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5232 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2016 : 08:32:52

Hmmmm. #10 AWG seems light to me.

Since you have an electric starter, I'm guessing it requires about 40-50A.
You have a 6A alternator, thus the confusion on the wire rating.
50A far exceeds the "ampacity" (amperage-carrying capacity) of #10AWG wire for this run.

Checking Don Casey's Sailboat Electrics Simplified page 48, here are the calculations.
� Assume that the engine cables attach to a connection block inside the transom.
� The approximate distance between the settee and the transom is 9 feet.
� The round trip distance is 18 feet.
� The starter amperage is 50A. (you should check)

>> According to Don Casey's table, the minimum wire size for 50A at 20 feet is #4 AWG wire for a 3% voltage loss.

If you were only concerned about the 6A charging circuit, the #10 AWG wire would be fine. But that's only 1/2 of the story. Starting's the thing.

The bad news is that #4 AWG wire is quite expensive, but you only need 20 feet. Don't forget a 60A fuse to be mounted next to the battery.

The cable is hard to wrangle, terminal connectors need to be quite beefy and the fuse will be large.

Now, #4 AWG wire is required for a 3% loss (about 0.4V) while starting, but if the starter can tolerate a lower starting voltage, you may be able to get by with #6 AWG. This is better news.

Obviously, do not rely upon my advice, only a licensed electrician and you can make the determination of what's best on your boat. However, Don Casey generally advises on a worst-case scenario - better to be safe than sorry.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 06/25/2016 08:41:23

panhead1948
Captain

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345 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2016 : 09:04:10

When I talked to Tohatsu they suggested I use 6 gauge wire.

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3993 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2016 : 09:40:47

So I have a question, If in a house you have a 15amp circuit. I believe they use 14 gauge wire for that and 12 gauge for a 20amp circuit regardless of the length of the run. So in his charging circuit why can't he use 14/2 duplex if his altinator only puts out 6-10 amps?

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9014 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2016 : 09:49:47

I did a quick text search in the Tohatsu 9.8 Owner's Manual--on Page 72 it references a built-in 20 amp fuse in the starter circuit. So the starter must draw less than that. (Same on the Hondas.)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/25/2016 09:58:30

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2016 : 12:35:56

My PO had run a set of heavy duty wires from the battery under the quarter berth to the stern where the removable wood inspection port is and installed a thru-stern port to insert the wires from the motor. This allowed me to connect the motor directly to the battery under the starboard settee. Wish he had installed a quick disconnect port in the transom, started to do that myself but sold the boat before I got to it. The trolling motor plugs look ideal for this.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

Edited by - dmpilc on 06/25/2016 12:36:40

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2016 : 13:24:59

9.9's typically draw 20 - 30 A for starting. I did a lot of research before I used 8 ga. with 3% (0.36v) drop at 25a over 20 feet. Bigger doesn't hurt, but fused at 20a suggests no advantage. Just be sure to fuse it at the battery or switch at 25a or less.

edit: This thread reminded me of sailing on a friend's boat a few decades ago. He didn't have a fuse at the battery, nor were the batteries adequately secured, self tapping screws secured the battery straps. We crashed a little hard off a wave and suddenly had a fire in the battery compartment. It was quickly extinguished, but we lost electrics around midnight crossing the Toledo shipping lanes.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Edited by - Dave5041 on 06/25/2016 13:37:40

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9014 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2016 : 20:38:54

quote:
9.9's typically draw 20 - 30 A for starting.

Apparently not for Hondas and Tohatsus, based on their own internal fusing. But extra gauge wiring is never bad.

External quick disconnects, for whatever reason, might be suitable in a fresh water environment. In salt water, I wanted the cable from the engine to go through the transom and be connected to something inside--in my case, it was two studs I mounted in the quarterberth area, with wires running from there to the battery. (I'll defer to Bruce Ross on whether I got any of that right.) I only had to disconnect and reconnect annually to remove the motor, so an external plug seemed like just a liability.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/25/2016 20:45:48

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