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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts
Response Posted - 09/04/2015 :  10:36:57  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Derek Crawford

Steve, I'm a bit confused (some would say that's my usual condition...)
Under PHRF a spinnaker pole is limited to the "J" measurement. But I have never been aware that the same prohibition applies to a whisker pole. Are you sure about this? I have raced in regattas where people from many other race venues have used their whisker poles fully extended and no-one has ever lodged a protest. I was chair of our PHRF of the Alamo Committee for many years and have never heard of this rule.


The following is Rule 16 from the "STANDARD SAIL AND EQUIPMENT SPECIFICATIONS" from the Phrf Rules for the Chesapeake Bay. I'm not paraphrasing them. I cut and pasted them.

"16. Non-spinnaker Limitations (Applies to both single and double headsail classes, except where noted)

A. The maximum length of a spinnaker pole (whisker pole) that may be used without penalty shall be equal to J. If the spinnaker pole (whisker pole) is adjustable, a red color shall be visible if the pole is extended beyond its rated length." Source: http://www.phrfchesbay.org/docs/sailregs.pdf

I just noticed something I never noticed before. The rule limits the maximum length of a spinnaker pole (whisker pole) that may be used without penalty. That presumably means that you can use a longer pole, but you will be assessed extra time in your handicap. I have never heard of anyone doing that, and strongly suspect that the penalty will be enough to discourage you from doing it.

quote:
IMHO I think that a whisker pole limited to "J" is about as useful as mammary glands on a male bovine!
It limits the sailing angle to nearly DDW. Nobody has ever told me the rationale for the rule, but, I raced for many years where there was no limitation on the length of the whisker pole, and could usually beat spinnaker boats downwind with my white sails and whisker pole, and with no handicap differential. If you don't limit the length of the whisker pole, a non-spinn boat can become very competitive with a spinnaker boat, especially if the downwind leg of the race is fairly short. If a non-spinn boat is competitive with a spinn boat, then the use of spinnakers might die out, because it's much easier and cheaper to rig the boat and race non-spinn. I think PHRF made the rule to make non-spinn boats less competitive with spinn boats, so that people will have an incentive to use spinnakers.
Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore
Edited by - Steve Milby on 09/04/2015 10:46:33
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts
Response Posted - 09/04/2015 :  11:00:30  Show Profile
I just looked at the PHRF Rules for the Alamo, and the rules don't appear to be nearly as detailed as the rules of other PHRF chapters that I have seen. Your rules don't appear to limit the length of the whisker pole. That explains why you and I haven't understood each other all these years. We've been thinking in terms of different PHRF rules. http://www.lcyc.net/Documents/PHRF_100211.pdf
Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore
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DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts
Response Posted - 09/04/2015 :  11:07:09  Show Profile
Steve, no race tonight right?

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts
Response Posted - 09/04/2015 :  11:15:14  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by DavidBuoy

Steve, no race tonight right?
Right. The Beer can series is over. Awards ceremony Sept. 11 at 6-8 pm at Eastport YC. I'm attending the rules seminar tonight at J World at 6 pm. (It's free!)
Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore
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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3312 Posts
Response Posted - 09/04/2015 :  12:56:56  Show Profile
Thanks Steve. I now understand why our opinions have differed over the years. I still think that the Chesapeake rule is silly.
Derek Crawford
Chief Measurer C25-250 2008
Previous owner of "This Side UP"
1981 C-25 TR/FK #2262 Used to have an '89 C22 #9483, "Downsized"
San Antonio, Texas
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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.