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Electrical mess

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/21/2015 : 15:19:41

Over the past few weekends I've been working with my Power Squadron vessel safety inspectors and I'm learning all kinds of cool things about how to make your boats more livable, more comfortable and easier to manage.
We've seen some clunkers that only a mother could love, some classic woodies - a beautiful Chris Craft in particular - and some very modern powerboats with systems that seem almost like magic to their owners. Patting ourselves on the back, it's incredible how knowledgeable, canny and well-versed this CC25s community is! The degree of cluelessness is staggering among many boaters, power and sail!
Mostly we found 3-4 problems:
1. Outdated flares - no surprise there.
2. Bad electrics - steaming lights, all around lights, nav lights, anchor lights that don't work. And won't work without major surgery
3. Fire hazards - non-working fire extinguishers, backfire flame arrestors, bad exhaust fans.
4. Non-working or poorly-connected VHF radios. No clew on how to make a radio call or do a radio check.

So, thinking a little I wonder whether it would make sense for me to put out a shingle: "electrical repairs".

I could advertise at local boatyards and marinas - good rates, nav knowledgeable, boater.

My question is this:
1. Do I need a license?
2. What kind of insurance would I need?
3. Is there a NMEA certification I should have?

I'm an EE and have done A/V installs for my brother who runs a Home Theatre business and can sort out boating network issues. I taught the USPS Marine Electronics course several times. Do you think I could make some $$$ while paying for insurance or am I better off just doing the 9-5 job?

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 06/21/2015 15:23:10

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2015 : 20:17:28

...or a wild-hare thought: Check with a local marine electrical/electronics business about possibly working as a part-timer or subcontractor. It could be an advantage to them versus a full-time employee, and your schedule could be somewhat flexible. We have such a business in Mystic, but beyond that, I know nothing about insurance requirements, etc.

You could also discuss the possibilities with a marina or two...

I know someone who does marine electrical work on the Q.T. by word-of-mouth, and he's really good... (He could wire my boat any time.) But I think you're smart to consider the licensing and liability issues.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/21/2015 20:25:44

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2015 : 05:21:44

When I asked a couple of local mariners about getting work done on our boat (c34) they advised me that any contractor that worked in their yard had to be licensed and insured (not sure what license)

One yard would not let the owners even wash the boat down! (they were apparently worried that the wash may blow over to the multi-billion multi story hotel/motel yacht in the adjacent lot.)

Paul

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2015 : 06:58:54

Like Paul said. This is from my Marina contract..

quote:
Outside Contractors: No outside labor is permitted unless authorized by the marina. Outside contractor status is determined
by the yard manager. The following conditions must be met:
#61623; Owners must notify Marina office prior to outside labor arrival
#61623; Subcontractors may only work in the yard during �normal� business hours.
#61623; The marina reserves the right to charge an hourly (15$) fee to compensate for use of our facilities and
overhead.
#61623; Subcontractors must provide insurance certificates with Brewer�s Glen Cove named, showing coverage of at
least two million dollars.
#61623; Subcontractors must show proof of Workmen�s Compensation insurance and valid Tax I.D. numbers.
#61623; Subcontractors must sign in and out at the marina office each day on the job.
#61623; Subcontractors must have MSDS forms available for all hazardous materials brought into the yard

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2015 : 18:23:48

Then again . . . . yes, all the yards I know have "rules" to make it difficult for outside contractors and, therefore look more advantageous to use the yard's possibly overpriced services. BUT my yacht club has no such rules and stores a bunch of boats. And I have used "scab" labor in the fancy yard but have been their with them and acted as if they were friends/family. Craigslist is full of entreprenuers doing such work. So it is a possibility. IMHO insurance is the necessary issue so if you give it your best shot but the customer is disappointed you don't lose your house. My 1980 boat could use tons of upgrades that are not difficult but take precious time away from weekends and other commitments, so . . . . Bruce you may be on to something!

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2015 : 03:44:09

My marina has rules somewhat similar to what Scott has detailed. Sometimes these rules have nothing to do with using the marina's service versus outside mechanics/contractors but I could easily see why a marina would impose certain rules to encourage use of their own facilities.

In my area, two marinas are located on park land. South of Natl Reagan Airport on the VA side of the Potomac, there is the Wash Sailing Marina on VA Park Dept land. My boat is on the DC side on DC park land - James Creek Marina. Both marinas are operated by a company that has the contract/franchise to operate the marinas and coincidentally is the same company. The Wash Sailing marina does have some light duty maintenance/repair facilities including a travel arm lift, however, my marina has no services other than the maintenance of the docks - No facilities to lift the boats out nor areas on land to store boats. At my marina, all maintenance and repairs are done either by the boat owner, outside mechanics/contractors or boats brought to nearby marinas to have work performed. My marina also imposes similar rules as Scott listed except they do not impose any fee for visiting mechanics. Mainly, outside contractors have to be licensed and have insurance to a certain specified amount. They have to check in and check out of the marina's office when performing work. These rules are mostly to protect the boat owners against non-boat owners gaining access to the docks and to protect the marina against damages. Both marinas also have environmental type rules against doing anything on the exterior of the boat that could cause inadvertent harm to the river (than what already exists). Except for minor work on the exterior, the rule is generally that you can do what you want inside the boat not on the outside of the boat while in the marina.

The Washington Sailing Marina has some interesting rules enforced by the marina operator but have their origins from the VA Park Dept.....Sailboats that are brought into the maintenance yard for maintenance or repairs are charged a weekly rate for keeping the boat in the yard the first week and then are charged a steeper day rate for each day the boat is kept in the maintenance yard during the second week. These rates apply whether the boat owner performs the work himself, by a contractor or by the yard personnel. All boats must be removed from the maintenance yard by the end of the second week !! This is because there is limited room in the maintenance yard. Also, which is a bit unusual, is that the marina actually has more boats stored on the marina land adjacent to the docks than are actually in the finger slips. In past years when they have had wait lists to gain a space at the marina, the wait list was longer for storing the boat on land than for keeping it on a finger slip ! Not sure if that is till the case. I estimate they have about 150 sailboats on finger slips and perhaps 200 sailboats or more on the land. The maintenance yard can hold about 4 sailboats at a time.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 07/02/2015 03:48:26

jduck00
Captain

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USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2015 : 04:15:22

Hey Voyager, I'm a sparky as well so I'll throw my 2 cents in. Even the marina that caters to owner repairs in my area requires 1M of insurance for contractors. I don't know if there is a niche for consulting work out there, but you could try that for a few side dollars. Find the problem, document the needed repairs, and be a contractor facing owner's advocate. Pitch the sale as helping owners save money with unneeded repairs. I know there are a lot of good contractors out there, but after years of dealing with them, I don't have a high level of trust with them.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2015 : 13:15:13

I work in the large scale commercial electrical industry. Typically, to do any electrical work, you would need a state journeyman's license. Marine electrical work is kind of a specialty, so I'm not sure I would trust any rookie electrician to do the work. I don't even know if the NEC covers marine work. If so, it's not something that your normal electrician focuses on learning.

Every state is different, but if you're running work on your own, wouldn't you need a Masters license? And as a business, you may also need to be bonded.

1989 C-25 TR/WK #5894
Miss Behavin'
Sittin' in LCYC on Canyon Lake, Texas

Edited by - NautiC25 on 07/02/2015 13:15:31

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2015 : 20:17:38

In my harbor we have an unusual situation: we've got 3 marinas with all the standard contract language but there's also a large number of boaters who use the 4 launching ramps and about 90 boats on floating docks that are rented from the City. As far as I can tell there are no restrictions on private boaters using the ramps and my floating dock contract has no stipulations regarding contractors or maintenance work. Further, any of the floating dock users can also use city docks to provision, clean or maintain their boats.
Now when I was consulting I had $1mm liability insurance for about $1200/yr. So the only question mark is a license. I know that in CT if you wire low voltage applications like home theater HDMI cables, speaker cables, control lines or Cat5 network cables, you don't need to be a full-fledged electrician with an E-1 license, you need to apprentice and take a test for E-3 certification. I can do that with my brother's company on weekends (he has a home theater business) and can probably pass the test. I'd have to advertise locally to attract the trailer boats and put up a sign near the dinghy docks. I may try it out this September to see whether I can get any work. Who knows? Word of mouth you know...

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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USA
191 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2015 : 07:44:39

I am assuming by EE you mean electrical and not Electronic. Besides all that has been said about licensing and insurance I think it might be that you would need Electronic certification as well if you are going to work with it. As an Electronic contract engineer with certification I could work on electrical and electronics plus I am also certified as an Industrial eng.. I am also FCC certified as a tech./eng. in radar and comm. (FCC lic. is a bear to pass!) Insurance is the cost biggie for an independant engineer. I tried it for awhile after being a Comm. Eng. for Pacific Gas & Electric and it wasn't worth much up here in N. Cal.. Try it, I did, Chief

COMPASS ROSE C250WK
Tall Mast, Wing keel
PORT CHIEF, Bodega Bay Ca.
IE,EE,FCC lic #1890

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2015 : 19:54:19

Chief -
Not for nothing, I received my electronic and electrical engineering degree from the Georgia Institute of Technology with a minor in Computer Engineering.

In the past 4 years, I've taught the 18-week US Power Squadron's Marine Electronics course (sections 1,2 and 3) four times. Most of the students were power boaters with large boats including 120 VAC shore power, NMEA networks, large screen TVs, bilge pumps, kitchen appliances, satellite dishes, etc. There were also a few sailors among the students.

I'm connected with the chair of the Connecticut Marine Trades Association on LinkedIn, so rather than just speculate, I'll ask her (1) what she'd advise me to do to plan for a retirement career as an indie contractor and (2) whether it's worth it. I'd imagine if she doesn't know, she'd know someone who does.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 07/05/2015 20:00:11

Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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USA
191 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2015 : 07:34:20

Bruce: I understand, and have taught Jr. college, etc. I was not allowed to perform as an engineer with PG&E without a FCC license in Comm. is the main point. Our education levels will not necessarily qualify us to perform technically in most cases that I know of except Scab. I am an inactive member of AFL.CIO Engineering as well. Good idea to check it out as you indicate. Please let us know what you find out.
Good luck, Chief

COMPASS ROSE C250WK
Tall Mast, Wing keel
PORT CHIEF, Bodega Bay Ca.
IE,EE,FCC lic #1890

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