Association Forum - Tons of Questions

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Tons of Questions

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Kper
Captain

Member Avatar

USA
417 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/28/2014 : 08:09:06

Ok, Christmas is over and it's time to get to work prepping the boat for spring and I have several questions and hoping for input. I'm beginning to realize just how ignorant I am when it comes to the hardware on my boat. Last summer was our first season with our boat. In fact, we only sailed once, bought our C25 and have been teaching ourselves.

The main halyard is tough to raise and at the end of the season I noticed it looked like it was a size too big and didn't fit properly in the sheaves. To be honest, I don't even know what the proper size should be.

Question 1)
I was considering a halyard kit from CD and noticed some say they they are designed to lead lines to the cockpit. My current lines lead to the top of the cabin next to the companionway. Is this considered "to the cockpit"?

2)
My lines are inside the mast, is kit E1783 the one I need?
http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/768_185/halyards-to-cockpit-with-clutches-internal-c-25.cfm

3)
I also don't have clutches, which seem nice to have, all I have are cleats - would the clutches be a nice addition or not worth the price for somebody learning?

4)
Turnbuckle Jaws - Is it safe to assume they are all 5/16? I have a few bent ones and they are also on my spring order list. I am aware, however, that they are left and right handed threads.

5)
My boom, when the main is down, is supported by a short cable attached to the rear stay. This makes it a hassle to raise the boom by hand and attach the cable prior to lowering the main. I'd like to run a line or cable from the top of the mast and attach the boom permanently. Am I nuts? If not, can I use Polyline or should I stick with cable?
http://www.theisens.com/store/p-13113-koch-industries-5171225-38-x-100-polyline-braided-rope.aspx

6)
We are in need of a new main sail. Any recommendations for a source? Side note, has anyone silk screened or sewed an image on a sail?

7)
Lazy Jack - Thoughts? The Admiral would prefer one as this seems to be the most stressful part of her sailing.

8)
Lights: I need them all and want to go LED. I'm still learning what, exactly, I need as this seems to be a fuzzy topic. My anchor light assembly is broken and my steaming light is damaged, as well. I think I can get by with bulbs for the rest.

I just realized how long this is - sorry.

Thanks everyone.

Edited by - Kper on 12/28/2014 08:18:56

DavidBuoy
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2014 : 08:42:02

5) Topping lift
Here is what you need-http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/2283_40/topping-lift-wire-only-for-cp-22-c-25-c-250-std-rig.cfm

You put a line on the end of it through a block on the end of the boom to a cleat. Or you can take that line all the way down the boom and return it to your cabin top cleats for easier access.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2014 : 08:48:44

Question #1:

Yes, it sounds like your halyard is led back to the “cockpit”. The halyard size should be 5/16” diameter.

Question #2:

Starts with a question. Do you have roller furling? If you do, especially a CDI, you may not need that second rope clutch included in the kit.

Question #3:

I added a rope clutch and a winch to my cabin top for my main halyard, and yes it was worth it.

Question #4:

Seem to remember turnbuckles all 5/16.

Question #5:

I had a simple ¼” line that ran from the masthead to the end of the boom. Kept the boom from falling into the cockpit when lowering the main. I only used the pigtail after the main was covered a I was done sailing. The other option is a topping lift which would be adjustable.

Question #6:

I purchased a new suit of sails from North Sails Direct. But there are many discussions here on that subject and it sometimes is controversial. Ullman Sails in Ventura gets mentioned frequently.

Question #7:

Lazy jacks are a big help for large sails. I did not have them on my C25, but I do on my catamaran.

Question #8:

I used Dr LED replacement lamps to replace bulbs on the boat. However, if your fixtures are damaged you might want to just go with new fixtures designed for LED.

Edited by - on

WesAllen
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2014 : 11:31:04

Question #7: Lazy Jacks, I have them on my C25. I put them on my self and tried to use them and was very disappointed. Them someone with more knowledge then I (Not hard to find)

showed me how to adjust them to fit my sail and I use them all of the time now. I still have to get on top and stack them properly before wrapping my sail ties around them but I can now do that at my convenience.

Edited by - on

Kper
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2014 : 13:54:49

Thanks for the quick replies, this is a huge help to me!

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2014 : 19:23:44

Another option for the topping lift is to end the cable in an eye a few feet above the boom and run line the rest of the way. Mine terminates with a block, so the line runs up from the boom and back down to a cleat. I use camcleats on the cabin top for halyards. I don't think clutches are worth the money in that application. I use a downhaul from the boom to the base of the mast to tension the halyard. I can easily run the halyard from the cam cleat to a sheet winch for tension if I need to.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2014 : 20:19:20

You can do much better than the Catalina Direct kit for the topping lift. Just use 1/8" or 7/64" dyneema, put a little eye splice at the top for the masthead connection, and another at the bottom for a little block. Run a line from the end of the boom up to that block, and back down along the boom to a cleat.

This is much cheaper than the wire solution that Catalina Direct uses and is also lighter and can't chafe your sail. The dyneema topping lift is so light that it generally flies back out of the way of the sail when sailing.

Catalina Direct's price on that halyard kit is somewhere between a little high and insanely high, it's hard to tell since they don't say what line they are using. It is complete overkill, but you can get Warpspeed right now for an insanely cheap price from Fisheries Supply:
http://www.fisheriessupply.com/samson-rope-warpspeed-beige-with-blue-tracer

5/16" is plenty big for Catalina 25 halyards and this stuff is much lower stretch.

I recommend Lewmar clutches over Spinlock. They release more easily under load and put less wear on the lines. They've been on sale from many sources for the last 6 months too, so the pricing is better than average right now.

Clutches are nice vs cleats. They allow both halyards to share a single winch.

Lazy jacks don't flake the sail for you, so they don't really save all that much time in my opinion. A lot of people just let the sail fall into them however it falls, but that's nice as nice for the sail as a proper flake.

Edited by - on

ct95949
Captain

Members Avatar

Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2014 : 22:26:52

I replaced my old lines with 1/4" for everything except the sheets which are 3/8". I really liked the reduced friction and weight. I added rope clutches in front of the cabin top winches and feel they were worth the labor and expense.

Sometimes CDs kits are a good idea, sometimes not. You could easily make your own halyards, topping lift, outhaul and lazy jacks. I bought line in different colors for halyards, sheets, reefing, vang, etc.

For me, rigging lazy jacks was easy, cheap and satisfying. I hated having the main sail drop all over or into the cabin when I released the halyard. I think I used 3/16" line on that so it wouldn't affect the sail shape and no strength is needed. As you can see in the pics the sail will almost flake itself. Makes it a lot easier to finish the job and put the cover on.

Edited by - ct95949 on 12/28/2014 22:35:20

hewebb
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2014 : 06:56:16

First let me tell you that I have only had my boat for three years. What I did works well for me. Sailing on other boats as a crew member lead me to most of these items. My boat was really a basic cruising boat when I got it.

2) I removed all the existing halyards and mast head sheaves. I found the sheaves were cracked. I replaced them with 4 new sheaves. The one for the main is ball bearing. I replaced the mast single line exit blocks with double line blocks. I added double rope clutches each side. (I wish I would have added triples at least on the starboard side) Starboard side has main halyard, Cunningham and topping lift. Cunningham line also is used as reefing line. Topping lift line goes into a cam cleat aft of the winch. Port side is jib halyard and a spare halyard for spinnaker when I get one. Halyards, topping lift & Cunningham lines are 5/16 Samson XLS color coded. If I had it to do over I would probably go with all dyneema lines

6) I ordered a full batten, loose foot, double reef main from Catalina Direct. I picked that sail because 90% of my sailing in inland lakes and often in really light air. Double reef for the times I go to the Gulf and a possibility of really heavy air. I also added an outhaul. Catalina Direct will mark your sail with the logo and sail number.

7) No lazy jacks. I drop the mast to move the boat and lazy jacks would be a lot of extra hassle. I solo sail quite a bit and the 25 sail is small enough to handle without them.

8) I have replaced all the interior lights with new LED fixtures. Some were from CD and some from the RV store. I have LED bulbs for the mast and running lights but have not yet installed them as the bulb is different than the fixtures. Not sure if I will replace the fixtures or modify them to make the bulb work.

Edited by - on

kiko
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
69 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2014 : 12:31:43

Instead of dealing with a topping lift, you may want to do some research and see if a "Boomkicker" would help.

That's what I installed and I love it!

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2014 : 14:30:28

Boomkickers are another option instead of a topping lift. The only problem I have with them is you can't put your body weight on the boom, It will collapse. There's been a few times when standing on the cabin top tying up the sail that I have gotten knocked off balance from a wake and had to lean hard on the boom. If I had a boomkicker instead of a topping lift I would have ended up in the cockpit.

Edited by - on

Kper
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2014 : 18:28:10

Can't one of you simply move in next door so I can get a complete, hands-on education?
Sadly, my schedule doesn't allow me a lot of computer time during the week so I'm printing this off and studying it. Crazy, eh?

Edited by - Kper on 12/29/2014 18:28:33

Kper
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2014 : 19:32:58

I see I still have a lot to learn as I struggle through some of the posts but I'm starting to get a handle on it.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2014 : 19:41:34

I used 1/4" and 5/16" Vectran 100 for my main and roller 150 Genoa, the recommended sizes and on sale at the time, and there has been no visible wear or UV degradation in 6-7 years. Based on that, I will probably go with 3 or 4 mm when I replace my topping lift if I can it that small.

Edit: just checked, vectran and dyneema are both available in 3 mm with about 1900 pound breaking strength.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 12/29/2014 20:04:58

ct95949
Captain

Members Avatar

Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2014 : 20:27:34

Printing it off? You must be crazy!

Actually, I have six or seven binders full of posts from this forum from several years ago. Most of what I know about sailing and working on my boat has come from the experts on this forum. Now I keep topics on my laptop along with hundreds of pics of different projects. If you need any more help I would focus on something specific, taking one thing at a time. Doing the work yourself can be very rewarding and a good way to learn.
Good luck!

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2014 : 12:02:58

Regarding LED lighting there's a lot to think about. Interior lights are simple while nav lights and exterior lighting is a bit more complex. Easy first.
You can keep the original incandescent fixtures that came with the Cat25 with LED bulbs, however these fixtures require bayonet-type bulbs similar to automotive bulbs. Typically these LED bulbs are directional and pointed the wrong way for maximum efficiency and brightness in the fixtures. If you can find good LED all-around bulbs (360 degrees), that may work fine.
Instead, Dr LED offers replacement fixtures as does CD, Defender and West Marine - to name a few. Some are available from RV dealers too. I used two Dr LED fixtures for the two main cabin lights (starboard and port). I found some 12V hockey-puck LED lights at the local home improvement store (Lowes) and mounted them in the galley - they brightened a very dark spot between the sink and cooler. I added a LED fixture above the aft end of the starboard settee and halfway down inside the quarterberth. Helps a lot.
For interior lights I rarely use like the Vee berth, I did not change out the incandescent fixtures or bulbs. I replaced the head incandescent fixture with another brand. I bought a Coleman LED rechargeable lantern as a portable to light up any area on the boat and use LED flashlights elsewhere.

Exterior Nav lights are a different matter. I added a Dr LED light bulb to my white aft light and my mast-top anchor light. This allows me to sail or anchor for extended periods without worrying about my battery drain. A 25W incandescent anchor light takes about 2A and a fall overnight can be 14 hours long, or about 28 AH, roughly 70% of a Group 24 battery's reserve charge.
For the Red-Green bow-mounted light, it's best to replace the entire fixture with a LED. The fixture is made with a red LED and a green LED to make sure the color is correct and the 2nm range is met. Simply replacing the old bulb with a new LED bulb in a red-green plastic filtered fixture (typical with incandescent), the color of the LED can make the green look blue and the red look white. The ONLY thing that allows other boaters to identify your direction (and right of way under rules of the road at night) is the color and placement of the nav lights. You WILL get a ticket from the USCG if you use a LED in a conventional fixture.
For the steaming light or bow light (the one 1/2way up the mast), since it is only used while underway with the engine running, I did not replace it since there's no need to worry about current drain. The engine basically runs the bow light. No brainer there.
So, you have your choice - don't replace the red-green incandescent and put up with current drain or replace the entire fixture, and don't replace the steaming or bow light with a LED.
Not sure how clear my explanations are, but like I said - not a simple answer. Weigh your options, replace the most important lights and fixtures first.

Edited by - Voyager on 12/30/2014 12:14:00

Kper
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2014 : 12:30:22

Made perfect sense, Bruce, and I was in a dilemma regarding which fixtures to replace vs bulbs only. Thanks!

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2014 : 12:47:27

Dr LED does in fact make a replacement led for the bow light. It has green and red LEDs.

IIRC, I did have to modify the contacts slightly.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2014 : 21:05:21

FWIW ~ IMHO...installing lazy jacks was one of the best mods we did...

Edited by - on

rhbush
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
29 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2014 : 06:34:31

For lazy jacks, take a look at the Sail Cradle made by Sailcare. I don't have the link, but you can go to sailcare.com and look at them. They are retractable lazy jacks.They are part line and part bunji cord. They clip to the mast when you are not using them. My wife single hands our boat frequently and that was one of the things she insisted on. They also allow you to use your existing sail cover.

Edited by - on

Kper
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2014 : 08:28:01

I am so glad I started this thread. The knowledge and assistance on this forum never ceases to amaze me.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.