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Luff Foil Systems

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capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/06/2014 : 19:34:24

Can someone give me advice on luff foil systems? My boat had the Head Foil 2 system, but the forestay's been wrapped round the mast while it was up for sale and the foil's got all bent and gone rigid. I doubt I'll be able to attach the forestay to the bow fitting without removing the foil altogether. Is there any way to straighten it out, or is it done for? If the latter, what are my options? I'm new to this modern nautical technology. In my day you had jib hanks. I suppose that's one option, but none of my headsails have grommets. Besides, I'll be spending all winter fitting slugs to the mainsail. As some of you may know I have a weird mainsail that's not the right size and presently has only a luff-rope.

If I need a new luff foil system, which is best (and easiest to fit)? Also, I don't have a headsail furler. The boat was supposed to have a CDI, but didn't have when we got it home. Can I have both - a furler and a luff foil system? Do I need both? Will a furler also serve as a luff foil system? When I Google 'luff foil systems' I read that I must keep my luff tape clean! What's luff tape? This sailing game has got VERY confusing!

Edited by - on

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2014 : 04:22:53

luff tape is the strip of webbing on the luff of the sail that feeds up the slot in the foil. like boltrope, but thinner.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2014 : 05:37:20

Head Foil 2 system appears to be a plastic foil. Its possible that having been rapped around the mast it has taken a set. Usually what you need to do is straighten it out and warm it in the sun or pour some hot water over it. I know, Hard to find warm sun in Michigan this time of year so try the hot water. Head Foil 2 is not a roller furler.You have to go up and manually change out your head sails as wind conditions change. It's a sail changing system similar to Tuff Luff and eliminates having to clip hanks on to the forestay. If you want the convenience of a Roller Furler(my choice) then a CDI FF4(with the ball bearings) is a good choice/value from what others have reported on the forum.

Edited by - islander on 10/07/2014 07:08:12

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2014 : 07:09:28

Your Foil looks like this?

A CDI without the drum looks a lot like that but the slots are on opposite sides of the foil, front and back instead of beside each other.

Edited by - pastmember on 10/07/2014 07:10:22

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2014 : 17:19:01

OR you can spend a little bit more and get a Harken Mark IV furler that can also be used as a foil.

Remove the drum and use it as a foil with twin slots so you can pre-feed another sail on and then make a quick sail change.

http://www.harken.com/furling/

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2014 : 19:10:25

I have a stainless mesh lined pvc foil on my Harken roller. I snake it along the deck and loop it back after dropping the mast with no ill effects. Its all a matter of warming it as suggested before straightening and tensioning it.

Edited by - on

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2014 : 08:54:57

quote:
Originally posted by Dave5041

I have a stainless mesh lined pvc foil on my Harken roller. I snake it along the deck and loop it back after dropping the mast with no ill effects. Its all a matter of warming it as suggested before straightening and tensioning it.

can you get that from harken? mine has aluminum foils. Im very careful when lowereing to not bend it.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2014 : 14:49:59

I've searched or it without success at Harken. I don't know how old it is, but apparently no longer available.

edit: The new carbo foils might have similar handling characteristics

Edited by - Dave5041 on 10/08/2014 14:55:51

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2014 : 20:22:45

Thanks for all your import, fellow yachtsmen (or, should I be writing 'yachtspersons', I ask myself? To which the admiral nods vigorously!)

Todd - thanks for putting me right on the luff tape. My headsails don't seem to be taped with anything, but whatever's within the luff is certainly slimmer than boltrope. Should I be applying tape, or is that a sailmaker's job?

Frank - yes, my foil is very similar to those (probably the '20') but I can find no uptodate info on Headfoil so I'm guessing the company's gone kaput. I did consider replacing it, but their 2010 price was $240. I may as well spend a bit more and go for a CDI furler, even if they were still able to supply me with a new length.

GaryB - I love your "little bit more". The Harken is about $1000 more than the CDI 4!

DaveB - I'm going to try warming it, but it's been wrapped around the mast for maybe ten years, summer and winter. It's bent like a snake with acute indigestion. Not sure it isn't past repair.

Scott - thanks for your input. I'm going to try hot water. If that doesn't work I have some lengths of metal scaffolding pipe so I'll thread it down those and leave it in the sun for a while (probably have to wait six months!). If all that fails it'll definitely be replaced with a CDI FF4.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2014 : 17:38:22

Not if you catch it on sale!

Defender had mine on sale 3 or 4 years ago when I bought mine and it was about $1400.00 if I remember correctly and that included the Harken kit to run the furling line along the stanchions and back to the cockpit. I think the furler was around $1,200 on sale and the CDI FF4 with ball bearings were around $800? Defender usually has a sale around this time of year.

CDI's site currently shows the FF4 at $850 plus $174 ($1,024) for the ball bearing kit. Defender has the Mark IV listed at $1,670 but it's not on sale right now.

Keep in mind the CDI does not have the twin slots for quick sail changes and the drum is not removable when you want to race like it is on the Mark IV.

Edited by - on

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2014 : 20:20:56

Ah, but North Sails Direct has the CDI FF4 on sale for $670, including ball bearings! I guess it's "horses for courses". If you race a lot, then the Harken has to be a better bet. Me, I'm a lone cruising man and just want to furl, or reef, my jib easily, so the cheaper CDI will do just fine.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2014 : 05:29:16

For cruising and easy reefing a R/F is the way to go. If the PO was using the Head Foil 2 system I'm guessing your sails already have luff tape (no hanks on the sail) so the conversion should be easy. Better yet would be that you have a 135% also.I'm assuming your going to be sailing the great lakes?

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2014 : 09:07:06

quote:
Originally posted by capelyddol

Ah, but North Sails Direct has the CDI FF4 on sale for $670, including ball bearings! I guess it's "horses for courses". If you race a lot, then the Harken has to be a better bet. Me, I'm a lone cruising man and just want to furl, or reef, my jib easily, so the cheaper CDI will do just fine.

Agreed! For cruising the CDI should be a great product. For some reason I was thinking your were wanting to race.

Edited by - on

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2014 : 18:57:47

Scott - yes, specifically Lake Superior. No 135%, but a 150% and a 170% as well as two 110% working jibs.

GaryB - both me and the boat are getting too long in the tooth for racing these days. I'm looking forward to some quiet 'pottering', as well as teaching the admiral to sail.

Edited by - on

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2014 : 19:00:21

Hey! I've just realized I've been promoted to 1st Mate. I must buy a new cap.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2014 : 10:50:04

quote:
Hey! I've just realized I've been promoted to 1st Mate. I must buy a new cap.

Just movin on up! I asked about a 135% because it is probably the best all around sail to put on a RF for the Catalina 25. A 150% seems to be good for locals that can have less wind like interior lakes. I wouldn't classify the Great lakes in that category, More like coastal or ocean. A 135% will reef up better than a 150% also. The 170 is huge unless its a drifter and if it is then its a nice bonus.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2014 : 12:38:49

I have a 150 roller and sail L. Erie and the gulf. I will second the 135 recommendation. It would be a better choice ny time other than the August doldrums.

Edited by - on

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2014 : 19:36:37

My boat spent its previous life in Minnesota sailing the inland lakes there. I guess the 150 and 170 were useful on such waters. As I need to get to know the boat, next season I'll probably start off with the 110 in anything more than a light breeze, and see how she handles before trying anything bigger. I hear what you're both saying about a 135 and appreciate why. Lake Superior can be very changeable - another reason for good furling/reefing gear. Scott, I agree the 170 IS huge! Not sure what you mean by a 'drifter', unless that it's a good sail to have when there's virtually no wind.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2014 : 05:01:07

Yep It;s a light wind sail, Lightweight material that you can fly like your Genoa without getting into spinnakers. This is Bill Holcombs.http://barnaclebillholcomb.blogspot.com/2011/04/drifter-jibs.html

Edited by - on

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2014 : 13:22:17

My 170 is certainly lighter fabric than the working jibs. However, it's nowhere near as light as the spinnaker. That's almost like parachute silk.

Edited by - on

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