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Florida anchoring rights under attack.

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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/05/2014 : 06:41:05

Many of you from outside of Florida may not realize, but anchoring your boat in bays, coves and the ICW in Florida are under constant attack from waterfront property owners, politicians and municipalities. To make matters worse, many irresponsible boat owners are anchoring their boats out because they do not want to pay for storage. Many of these boats become derelicts, become abandoned and some eventually sink.

The municipalities want to regulate these abandoned vessels and rightly so, however, every time these discussions come up, some authorities try to sneak in ordinances that would keep anyone from anchoring in some places. And as you might guess, these areas are always near multi-million dollar waterfront property.

Last night I attended one of two “workshops” where the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission has once again tried to bring in an ordinance that would prevent anyone from anchoring within 300’ of residential property. This, if enacted, would close, probably, half of the safe anchorages up and down both coasts of Florida.

The FWC will be opening an online questionnaire that will ask for the public’s opinion on these ordinances. It supposedly will not be limited to just Florida residents but all boaters from across the country that may use the Florida waterways. I will update this thread when I have more info about that.

Here are some links to the meetings and proposals:

http://www.waterwayguide.com/waterway-updates/news/GEN/4259/Dozens-speak-out-at-Florida-anchoring-workshop

http://cruisersnet.net/category/west-fl-western-florida/

http://myfwc.com/media/2847550/anchoring-public-meeting.pdf

http://www.ssca.org/cgi-bin/pagegen.pl?pg=home& title=Home

Edited by - on

sdpinaz
Navigator

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USA
193 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2014 : 07:13:21

rich people..... I bet they don't want people using the sidewalks near their houses either.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2014 : 07:14:38

Thanks for Posting Davy.

This is one of those Golden Rules -- If you have the Gold then you can set the Rules.

We have been following this topic from the FWC for the past few years, they keep trying to push something like this through.

It basically means that we will not be able to anchor in most of the ICW in Florida (300' means the waterway must be at least 600' feet wide in order to Anchor.) Throw in a few feet of rode and it would require an anchorage to have in excess of 800' width.

This concept uses the derelict vessels as the need but affects every vessel that visits us.

Florida is already recognized as not being friendly to sailboats and the growing monied few are attempting to add even more restrictions.

We (the admiral and myself) have sent dozens of emails to our Representatives on the subject. The more they receive, especially from Florida Residents, the better chance that we might be able to prevent this travesty.

But it's not limited to Florida Residents although the consequences both in convenience and financially will be felt the most by those that reside here.

And if Florida gets away with this concept, then look for it coming to your state soon.

Please take the time to follow the links posted by DavyJ.

Thanks.

Paul

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2014 : 07:24:10

quote:
rich people..... I bet they don't want people using the sidewalks near their houses either.

Most of them have gates across the roads to their sub-divisions, so you can't even drive on their roads either......

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2014 : 12:54:10

News from [url="http://www.sailmagazine.com/cruising-news/reporting-live-anchoring-meetings-florida"]'Sail Magazine'[/url]

Paul

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5238 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2014 : 17:06:48

Try parking your boat in front of Mitt Romney's house in Wolfeboro NH on Lake Winnepesaukee!
Next thing you'll see is a little red dot on you chest: laser sight.
Let me know which link to rant on, we sure don't need the 1%ers grabbin' all the goods without a fight.
The water belongs to everybody, even in Greenwich CT they can't keep you off the beach below high tide line - at least for now....

...and BTW, I plan to be a part-time resident of FL for the next 4 months.

Edited by - Voyager on 09/05/2014 17:21:48

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2014 : 17:58:11

quote:
News from 'Sail Magazine'

This article is pretty much spot on. The thing that stands out to me, is that if anchored boats, and even derelicts are such a problem. Where is the public outcry at these meetings. There is none.

Not a single, disturbed property owner, has spoken at these meetings.

Yet the FWC and the legislature press on.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5238 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2014 : 19:47:50

Where's the public outcry you ask?
1%-ers in general do not have time to attend horrors public meetings shoulder-to-shoulder along-side "the great unwashed". Unimaginable!
It's more like "Jeeves, please get Sen So-and-so on the phone and tell him that he and the commissioner of Parks should not expect another red cent of 'campaign contributions' if they don't keep those lowlife rag-baggers away from the view from my veranda!!!!" And do it now Jeeves.
The democratic process, alas, remains the province of the 99%-ers.
[Edit] In my opinion, that is...

Edited by - Voyager on 09/05/2014 19:49:27

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9017 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2014 : 09:49:57

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

...The water belongs to everybody, even in Greenwich CT they can't keep you off the beach below high tide line - at least for now....

...except that they do. I know several people who have been chased from even anchoring off Greenwich's Great Captain Island. The cops' message is clear: "Forget about what you think the law is or we'll ruin your whole day."

In Florida, how about a rule that boats can only remain at anchor (not including on moorings) within a defined radius (like 1000') for a limited time, such as one week? That would seem to accommodate transients, discourage long-term "camping", and allow for removal of derelicts. I've read that derelict removal has become a financial burden on towns... Would this not make sense for federal assistance to protect the waterways and the environment? (Of course, that gets into "How does a bill become a law?" Answer: The premise to the question is false.)

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2014 : 11:05:54

quote:
In Florida, how about a rule that boats can only remain at anchor (not including on moorings) within a defined radius (like 1000') for a limited time, such as one week?

This is unlikely to appease waterfront property owners. In most cases, the reason boats are using a particular anchorage is that it may be the only "good one" for many miles. The time frame just means that I may have to leave after that time frame. However, if you arrive tomorrow that means you can stay for your allotted time frame. What that means is that there is always going to be boats in that anchorage. The type of people complaining about this don't want any boats in "their" backyard.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2014 : 11:57:17

This screen capture shows the extent in which a Miami Beach homeowner has gone to prevent people from anchoring. You can see two sailboats anchored in the top of the photo. The other small dots are approximately 27 small dinghies in which the homeowner has anchored so that no one else can anchor there......

This guy doesn't want anyone there and seems to think his property line extends past his seawall into the middle of the waterway.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9017 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2014 : 13:59:19

Using my rule, the dinghies would have to be gone after one week.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2014 : 06:38:16

I'm not a 1%er, but I wouldn't want someone to park his old RV at the curb in front of my house and start living there indefinitely. I wouldn't want to have to hear him argue with his wife and kids, or run his engine to charge his batteries, and I wouldn't want to have to see him hang his jockey shorts out to dry.

These are reasonable, legitimate concerns that are shared by owners of modest homes as well as by rich people. None of us would want someone to degrade the quality of life that we thought we would enjoy when we chose to buy a home in that particular neighborhood. All of us aspire to live in attractive neighborhoods where we can retire in peace and quiet at the end of our workday, and restore ourselves for the next workday.

I had a lifetime of experience in dealing with issues just like this, and the people who make these decisions generally don't care who is rich and who is poor. The people who make the decisions are often civic-minded volunteers, who are not politicians, who are neither rich nor poor, and who are primarily interested in balancing the legitimate concerns of the property owners against the legitimate concerns of other members of the public. If you want to influence the outcome of the process, you don't favorably impress the people who make the decisions by accusing them of being venal, or by denigrating the property owners who merely want to preserve reasonable standards of life in their neighborhoods.

If you want to be ignored by the decision-makers, then accuse them of political favoritism and attack the property owners as 1%ers. If you want to have a positive influence on the process, then appear before them and discuss the issues rationally, and try to find a reasonable balance between the legitimate concerns of the property owners and the legitimate concerns of the general public.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2014 : 07:44:13

The real problem is that people buy property without analyzing the situation around the property and then want to change that situation. If you purchase a house on a golf course you can expect golfers in your back yard. If you like the view but then decide you don't like the golfers, you are not going to get much sympathy when you try to chase away the golfers.

I own waterfront property. It is canal system so I never have anyone anchoring overnight. However, I get fishermen fishing the docks, folks in kayaks and other water-toys, people cast netting for bait and boats traveling the canal at all hours of the day or night. It is what I expected when I purchased the property. For me to try to control what happens in the waterway behind my house would be quite unreasonable.

These people unfortunately purchased waterfront property that also happens to be a good place to anchor for boats that are traveling up and down the coast. They apparently didn't ask the realtor what all those boats are doing out there when they purchased the house. But now want to change the situation and control something that is not theirs to control.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2014 : 07:51:20

Point well made Steve.

I would suggest that rather than outlawing anchoring, the authorities should impose behavioral limits.

eg. Laundry may not be displayed outside of the vessel. Keep noise from the vessel & occupants below n.db between sunrise & sunset. etc. etc.

Rather than prevent cruising vessels (and that is any boat!), it's better to enact and enforce laws/rules that do just as you suggest... ie. Keep visiting vessels welcome rather than 'not in my back yard' (I know, it's not their backyard

)

If the problem is derelict vessels, then outlaw them.

I learnt a saying many many years ago.

All Apple trees have leaves.

All trees have leaves

All trees are Apple trees.

Not all boats in view are a burden, some (mine especially

) are beautiful and enhance the view from ashore.

Paul

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2014 : 08:30:09

That's the kind of thinking that can help, Paul.

It's hard to write a really good law that only prohibits the kinds of behavior that ought to be prohibited, while allowing the kinds of behavior that ought to be allowed. It takes creativity to plot a course that can be reasonably satisfactory to everyone. Agencies schedule public hearings in the hope that some creative person will appear and suggest a good remedy.

The Boating advocates, such as Boat US, ought to appear and not just express their objections, but they should appear and offer suggestions that would provide some protection to the legitimate interests of property owners, while preserving the vital interests of boaters. That's what folks in government like to call "win-win."

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2014 : 08:37:50

quote:
The Boating advocates, such as Boat US, ought to appear and not just express their objections, but they should appear and offer suggestions that would provide some protection to the legitimate interests of property owners, while preserving the vital interests of boaters.

The BoatUS rep at the Bradenton meeting did just that. She suggested that if municipalities would offer more low cost mooring balls, more legitimate cruisers would use those moorings.

Also, a gentleman from the Fort Myers mooring field reported that their area is success-full because of just that. They have free pump outs and a free dinghy dock.

Edited by - Davy J on 09/07/2014 08:42:53

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