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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Capri 25 Specific Forum

PHRF rating

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johngfoster
1st Mate

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USA
34 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/27/2014 : 12:25:37

So I'm planning to enter my very first race/regatta this Labor Day weekend at the local yacht club. On the entry form it asks for the "PHRF Mean Handicap". I have looked around online and found varying numbers ranging from 171 to 180. What do I put down for this? Thanks.

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joearcht
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USA
236 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2014 : 12:28:43

lol - use 180 as long as you can!!!!

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johngfoster
1st Mate

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USA
34 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2014 : 13:28:29

Forgive my ignorance, but what determines what I put down for PHRF rating? Why do some Capri 25s have a higher rating than others? I don't want to "cheat" by using the wrong handicap. There will probably be other Capri 25s sailing this regatta too, so I don't want to stand out with an abnormally high PHRF number. Most of the numbers I've seen have been 174, but as high as 180, and now with more searching, 168 is the lowest I've seen for the Capri 25. It also seems that different regions of the country seem to have different ratings too, with the West Coast typically rating lower. Why is this?

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johngfoster
1st Mate

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USA
34 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2014 : 13:41:59

Looking at the results spreadsheet from this race 2 years ago, there was another Capri 25 and its PHRF rating was listed as 174. I'm thinking of using that for this race. Thoughts?

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joearcht
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USA
236 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2014 : 13:44:43

I'm no expert on PHRF ratings. The lower the rating the higher your handicap is essentially, that's why I said use 180 if you can get it. My Club uses 174. I think the PHRF rating is designed to be locally adjusted due to conditions at the site of the race, that probably explains the range you are seeing. Your club racing management will probably assign the rating anyway, especially if there are other Capri's racing. You should all be using more or less the same rating unless you are equipped differently and the race management wants to compensate for that. I'm sure some others will chime in here who are more knowledgable than I am. Only thing I'm certain of is the higher your number the more time you will be awarded by the handicapping. Good Luck

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jmadd
1st Mate

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USA
84 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2014 : 13:45:42

You are asking some tough questions there John. It boils down to this for you though. Unless any of the other Capri's are modified outside the Capri class rules - http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/racing/apps_docs/Class%20Rules/Capri%2025.pdf you all should have the same rating. So I'd just ask one of those guys, or your local PHRF handicap authority should be able to tell you. PHRF ratings vary regionally, and even by club according to the whims, rules and prejudices of whoever sets the PHRF ratings for the race venue.

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2014 : 19:13:24

174 is a "good" number... there are certain regions that have added 6 or 12 across the board to all ratings, and that skews the numbers some. But like others said if you are otherwise equipped as OD 174 is a good number.

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Fleet
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USA
151 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2014 : 04:34:49

John, I recommend the 174 rating. Here is how you back it up. Go to the US Sailing website and pull up the published PHRF ratings there. http://www.ussailing.org/racing/offshore-big-boats/phrf/

From the tables use the Capri 25 average value of 174. 174 has been the PHRF value that different race organizers have assigned to Kami

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johngfoster
1st Mate

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USA
34 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2014 : 23:03:05

Thanks for all the help and insight. I used the 174 rating on the registration form. I'll keep you guys posted on how our first race goes. Completely novice crew--one has never sailed before, one has sailed only once, and one other has some sailing experience with sailing dingys but nothing on the size of a C25. Should be interesting. It is promoted as a more laid-back regatta, so I hope all goes well. I'm really looking forward to it.

Edited by - johngfoster on 08/29/2014 23:04:11

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2014 : 04:30:19

John, good luck! Have fun!

Make it "easy" for the newbs... Tell them "pull this color line" and tell them what their job entails (if trimmer, then tell tales flowing like "x")... it gives them something to focus on.... Also remind them that the group has to "flip sides" and it should be a dance move, not a plop... if you keep the instructions/responsiblities short they'll enjoy it more.

The number 1 newb mistake I see is wrapping line around a winch wrong, the number 2 is they use 2 wraps from the get-go and get overruns... So the teaching goes like this: 1 wrap (always clockwise) until we get to "power position" make sure to give them a visual for power positions. Then apply a 2nd wrap, and depending on wind either wait for grinder, or snug it to final position.

One thing I still struggle with, in our informal club is when to "release." Obviously in light air the release is sometimes sooner... but with any kind of wind, I encourage the wind to back the genoa first then release, coreographed with the trimmer so they release, and trimmer trims right behind.

I find my helming is so bad this is detailed as we get so far.

If you are new at helming, keep yourself "trim" in remembering the rules to the big basics... Starboard over port, leeward over windward, and you'll keep out of others way, and still have a good race.

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johngfoster
1st Mate

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USA
34 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2014 : 11:48:18

Thanks for all the encouragement. We had a GREAT time. 1st day was bouy races. It was a comedy of errors, but we did manage to come in second to last place on one of the races. One of our crew had never sailed in his life before. One had only 1 prior day of sailing. Another crew had some experience sailing a Force 5 (like a Laser), but never on a keel boat. The weather was "challenging". It varied from no wind to a squall with driving rain. We had good wind for the first race, but the 2nd race it died off to the point we were basically drifting. We started with our 110% jib, but during the 2nd race while drifting, changed to our 153% genoa. Even though this sail should have been used for patches a long time ago (rips in the bottome and delaminating on the top, this actually helped. We flew the spinnaker a few times, but the course was short enough, and we were disorganized enough that by the time we got it up and set right, we were almost to the leeward mark. We did overtake one boat once on a downward leg, but they were sailing "white sails" only, and we had our spinnaker up. Once we rounded the leeward mark, one of our crew pulled on the topping lift instead of the jib halyard (it had just been disconnected from the pole), so the boat we just passed ended up passing us again, while I shimmied up the mast to retrieve the topping lift that had gotten stuck up by the spreaders. One of the hardest parts I found was timing the start correctly. They divided the boats into 3 fleets based on PHRF ratings: under 150, between 150 - 175, and over 175. C fleet (over 175) started 1st after a 5min warning, then their start was our 5min waring with flags at 5min, 4min, drop of a flag at 1min and again a drop of a flag at our start. We missed one start by over 2 1/2 min due to our confusion and inattention.

The second day went much better. It was a distance race around Big Arm bay on Flathead lake covering about 17 miles. There were at least 2 downwind legs we got to fly the spinnaker, and kept ahead of at least one of our rivals for last place. However, I believe they were registered as "white sails only", and raised their spinnaker on one of the last legs, so I think they got a DSQ, so we still ended up in last place even though we beat them to the finish line. It still felt good to actually beat someone.

We all had a tremendous time. One guy was actually talking about buying his own boat afterwards, he enjoyed it so much. I'll see if I can get some photos up sometime. Thanks again for all the support. We definitely want to do this again.

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abraxis
1st Mate

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USA
49 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2014 : 17:40:07

My PHRF Rating is 174 for spinnaker and 206 for non spin per West Florida PHRF
Check with PHRH Inc. in your area.
Have fun out there!

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2014 : 18:07:01

Holy wow, 206 is a gift non-spin.

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joearcht
Navigator

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USA
236 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2014 : 18:11:03

lol, I was thinking the same thing. Next time I want a trophy, I'm going to just leave the spin on the dock. We sail short buoy courses and it is questionable if putting up the spin is even worth the effort over a whisker pole put to the 155.

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johngfoster
1st Mate

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USA
34 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2014 : 20:42:06

Here's an attempt at some pictures from the weekend:

Sunday, the moment I realized that the (disconnected) topping lift was hoisted, not the jib halyard.

And a few downwind shots from Monday's distance race:

And one of the fleet as they leave us in their collective wakes:

Edited by - johngfoster on 09/03/2014 21:13:33

johngfoster
1st Mate

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USA
34 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2014 : 21:12:40

Looking at these pics now I'm realizing that the port toe-rail block for the spinnaker sheet should probably be more forward to bring the clew down some. Oh well, hind sight...

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Fleet
Navigator

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USA
151 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2014 : 05:39:29

It's great to be able to laugh off all your mistakes. For our first race with Kami, inexperienced crew also, our goal was to not finish last. I think we wound up third from last or something like that. We were happy to beat kayakers and swimmers. :)

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